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Satanists Where Are You?


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#31 Der Beamte Des Teufels

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 06:42 PM

I am a Satanist - a Theistic Satanist. Probably the only one on the boards. Haha.

I'll answer questions through private messages only however. That is, if anyone has any questions. If so, I'll be overjoyed to answer them. :ghost:
"I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning." - Aleister Crowley

#32 darkdragonfaiery

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 05:57 PM

OK, so I'm not a Satanist or Satan Worshiper, but have been married to and dated a few in my life. IF anyone wants to know anything please PM me. I will not put our stories out for everyone to oogle at and have anyone say I'm a "bad" person for my choices in life.

faiery
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#33 seakla

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:51 AM

I beleive in both human evil spirits and non-human evil spirits (demons in the Christian language) but I don't call upon them. I am not Satanist either but just plain old ordinary witchcraft/paganism. In my beliefs I don't think that Gods or Godessess are evil or good but the same as us, both good and bad qualities. As for spirits, yeah, I believe there are some baddies out there but I don't purposely call upon them. One rule that I adhere to is "never call up anything you can't control or banish." I can't guarantee that I am talking to Great-Grandma or a benign spirit so I don't call up any at all. When dealing with supernatural realms there are just too many things that are uncertain.
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#34 duncan36

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 12:28 PM

LaVey'ian Satanism serves several purposes but the main one is:

Create a lot of 'satanists' out there so the truly evil hardcore satanists will be able to ply their craft and not stick out so much. If every satanic group was hardcore evil obviously police agencies would be able to simply target all satanists.


Also satanists get off on lying to other people. They find it funny that they are able to lie about satanism to the low level people. I mean they call their 'religion' satanism yet they tell you the whole thing has nothing to do with satan. They find the fact that people believe their obvious lies hilarious.

Hardcore Satanists also enjoy degrading other human beings. The spiritual practices of LaVey'ian satanism are degrading to others and the practicer themselves. Over time these practices will whittle away at the users spiritual defenses. Combine this with the invocation of spirits/demons and its likely over time that negative entities will try to do harm to the person involved in satanism. So in that sense the 'religion' is about delivering human beings to the dark entities that hardcore satanists 'serve'.

You hear many of the lies of satanism on this page. Oh its just about exploring our dark side, theres no harm in it.

Evil is evil it has nothing to do with exploration of the human spirit. Unfortunately we see so many horrible things on television that we in some way have become desensitized to evil. Also we are often so isolated that any kind of brotherhood seems compelling, even satanism. Also many people who claim to be 'spiritual' aka most Churches are devoid of real spirituality so this also makes it easier for Satanism to attack Christianity and point out their flaws and use this to draw more followers.

However this doesnt change the nature of satanism. The things it tells its followers will lead them to ruin. It tells people to have hatred and anger in their heart for anyone who treats them less than perfectly. It teaches them to mock and profane other religions. It teaches them to invoke spirits/demons with no real understanding of what they're doing.

LaVey'ian Satanism is dangerous and deceptive.

#35 The V

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 02:36 PM

duncan36...there is so much you don't know about so many things. Join me as I debunk pretty much everything you had to say on this subject. I'm not a LaVeyan Satanist as such, but I used to be, and I still harbour a deep affection for the system.

LaVey'ian Satanism serves several purposes but the main one is:

Create a lot of 'satanists' out there so the truly evil hardcore satanists will be able to ply their craft and not stick out so much. If every satanic group was hardcore evil obviously police agencies would be able to simply target all satanists.


First of all, in LaVeyan (that's how you spell it) Satanism, the belief isn't that Satanists are created, but that they are born. Satanism is one of the few religions that does not proselytize. It is a belief system that people discover on their own, and if they find that it resonates with them, they stick with it.

Second, you can read in The Satanic Bible that Satanists do not believe in harming the innocent, or even animals for that matter. I'm assuming by "hardcore evil" you're referring to the rumours of human and animal sacrifice. No organized group or church which subscribes to LaVeyan Satanism has ever been shown to have engaged in such activities, nor have they ever been so much as suspected of such by any official authorities. There have been occasional isolated incidents which have been very tenuously linked to "Satanism," mostly by outraged, uptight Christian organizations. The fact of the matter is that all of these incidents were the actions of mentally disturbed people or, at the very most, "devil worshippers." Any LaVeyan Satanist can tell you that not only are devil worshippers not true Satanists, but that these people are looked down upon and reviled by true Satanists.

LaVeyan Satanists have no fear of any police agencies, because the simple fact is that they don't engage in illegal activities. Period.

Also satanists get off on lying to other people. They find it funny that they are able to lie about satanism to the low level people. I mean they call their 'religion' satanism yet they tell you the whole thing has nothing to do with satan. They find the fact that people believe their obvious lies hilarious.


Satanists lie. Buddhists lie. Jews, Christians, Muslims...they lie. Hindus, Scientologists, certainly...lie, lie lie. Where's the story here?

In The Satanic Bible one of the more famous references to lying involves dealing with the self-righteous, the incredulous, and the thrill-seekers. The lesson is that if someone wishes to enter a Satanist's space and treat them disrespectfully in some fashion, the Satanist is permitted (and encouraged) to have fun at that person's expense. If someone wants to hear the worst, a Satanist tells them the worse. "Of course we sacrifice fluffy kittens every full moon." "Of course our worship services always turn into massive orgies at the stroke of midnight." A Satanist is unconcerned with what these people think, because nothing is going to alter their preconceived notions anyway. One may as well get a little pleasure out of the interaction, no?

The name of the religion is inconsequential. It was chosen for its shock value, and little more. Obviously, it worked.

Hardcore Satanists also enjoy degrading other human beings. The spiritual practices of LaVey'ian satanism are degrading to others and the practicer themselves. Over time these practices will whittle away at the users spiritual defenses. Combine this with the invocation of spirits/demons and its likely over time that negative entities will try to do harm to the person involved in satanism. So in that sense the 'religion' is about delivering human beings to the dark entities that hardcore satanists 'serve'.


What is degrading about LaVeyan Satanic practices? Anyone who would allege something so ludicrous obviously knows nothing about the practices they speak of. The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head that could possibly be construed as degrading by the ignorant would be the use of nude females as altars during black masses. First, black masses are far from being a regular thing. Second, not all of them use nude female altars. Third, far from being degrading, it is empowering, completely voluntary, and actually a great honour for the lady in question. If someone finds nudity degrading, I'd say their issues would probably ensure that they don't go near a Satanic church in the first place.

As far as the invocation of spirits/demons...sorry, but you're still not quite on-target. It's true that some rituals involve naming specific entities (as incarnations of the overall Satanic force) these names do not mean the same thing to a Satanist as they do to outsiders. The naming process is a means of focusing energies. LaVeyan Satanists do not believe these entities reside anywhere but within our own minds. Any harm they cause springs from the will of the ritual's performer(s). I have never heard of any legitimate LaVeyan Satanists having their rituals backfire on them. I know none of mine did.

And no, LaVeyan Satanists serve no dark entities. They serve themselves and their loved ones.

You hear many of the lies of satanism on this page. Oh its just about exploring our dark side, theres no harm in it.


And we hear so many lies of other religions on many other threads, don't we? Whose lies are greater?

That "exploring the dark side" stuff...it happens in every religion. However, that's not really LaVeyan terminology. Decide which variety of Satanism you want to write about before you type, that way you don't go mixing up different systems.

Evil is evil it has nothing to do with exploration of the human spirit. Unfortunately we see so many horrible things on television that we in some way have become desensitized to evil. Also we are often so isolated that any kind of brotherhood seems compelling, even satanism. Also many people who claim to be 'spiritual' aka most Churches are devoid of real spirituality so this also makes it easier for Satanism to attack Christianity and point out their flaws and use this to draw more followers.


You're losing steam by this point, duncan. You are making statements without explaining what you mean. "Evil is evil." Okay, how do you define evil? I'm betting that someone, somewhere, disagrees with you.

Oh, and what does television have to do with anything?

Your claims of "appealing brotherhood" are interesting. First of all, "brotherhood" is a sexist term. I would say "fellowship" would be more accurate, as there are many, many female Satanists, maybe even more than male Satanists, though I don't have numbers for that. It's also interesting because most Satanists, of any variation, are solitary practitioners. Most Satanists get their fellowship on the internet, if at all. Not so different from what we get here at GV, actually.

Also, if most churches are devoid of "real" spirituality, what's wrong with pointing out their flaws? You'd rather they be left alone to wallow in their own mediocrity? And how do you define "attack" in the sense you used it in? Most Satanists simply have nothing to do with christianity, ignoring it as completely as they are able. When asked, they will certainly not defend the institution, but what are words? It's not as if they draw blood, do they?

However this doesnt change the nature of satanism. The things it tells its followers will lead them to ruin. It tells people to have hatred and anger in their heart for anyone who treats them less than perfectly. It teaches them to mock and profane other religions. It teaches them to invoke spirits/demons with no real understanding of what they're doing.


duncan, darling, your ignorance is showing. You might want to cover that up.

Let's break this one down a bit:

It tells people to have hatred and anger in their heart for anyone who treats them less than perfectly.


Indeed, it does. The question is, why? I will tell you.

Satanists are to hate those who treat them poorly because they are to love themselves entirely. It's a matter of pride. The Satanist knows she is worthy of respect, and will not tolerate anyone who believes otherwise. The Satanist knows that she is in charge of her own destiny, and will not tolerate anyone who believes otherwise. The Satanist knows that she is a goddess in her own right. She will not tolerate anyone who believes otherwise. These people are called our enemies. They don't deserve anything other than hatred and anger. Their existence diminishes our own.

It teaches them to mock and profane other religions.


Except that it doesn't. It teaches its followers to make up their own minds. There's a difference.

It teaches them to invoke spirits/demons with no real understanding of what they're doing.


Except that it doesn't. When I was a Satanist, the only thing I ever invoked was my own will. Yes, I occasionally named it. Yes, occasionally I chose a name that was already in use. But make no mistake...I never invoked a single demon in all the years I considered myself a Satanist, nor do I know any other Satanist who has.

LaVey'ian Satanism is dangerous and deceptive.


If you say so.

In the future, if you want to be taken seriously as a critic of Satanism, it would behoove you to actually crack a book (or even open a webpage) and collect some firsthand knowledge rather than regurgitating your local pastor's talking points from last week's sermon. Until you show that you are capable of rational, independent thought, don't expect respect.

Good day.

V

This is not a clever signature.


#36 duncan36

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 05:37 PM

First of all, in LaVeyan (that's how you spell it) Satanism, the belief isn't that Satanists are created, but that they are born. Satanism is one of the few religions that does not proselytize. It is a belief system that people discover on their own, and if they find that it resonates with them, they stick with it.


Thats simply false. LaVey would appear on talk shows extensively extolling the virtues of his religion. He would seek famous people out to put in provocative photo ops for his religion. He created a provocative book called the 'satanic bible', a blatant attack on Christianity, and vigorously promoted it.

Second, you can read in The Satanic Bible that Satanists do not believe in harming the innocent, or even animals for that matter.

I notice your use of the word 'innocent' as you well know there is a passage in the Satanic bible that says its 'ok' to sacrifice someone deemed a bad person. This certainly qualifies as human sacrifice and therefore your assertion is incorrect.



There have been occasional isolated incidents which have been very tenuously linked to "Satanism," mostly by outraged, uptight Christian organizations. The fact of the matter is that all of these incidents were the actions of mentally disturbed people or, at the very most, "devil worshippers." Any LaVeyan Satanist can tell you that not only are devil worshippers not true Satanists, but that these people are looked down upon and reviled by true Satanists.


I never said LaVeyan Satanists were all murdering, all committed to doing horrible things. If you actually read my post I in fact said the exact opposite. Its my assertion that LaVeyan Satanism, as the public face of satanism, purposefully is watered down. LaVey said as much during his life.





Satanists lie. Buddhists lie. Jews, Christians, Muslims...they lie. Hindus, Scientologists, certainly...lie, lie lie. Where's the story here?


What other of these religions has such blatant lies in its doctrine? The name of the religion LaVey created is the Church of Satan. Yet these same people will tell you the name Satan is symbolic and not real. That is a ridiculous lie, in rituals the religions tells you to invoke the name of satan and various demons but its all symbolic. Its such a ridiculous lie its funny. Also if the religion is not based on the Christian belief of Satan, then why is such a large part of the religion devoted to attacking Christianity. Why is there so much focus on performing rituals like the black mass. A ritual that everyone will tell you is directly rated to the Catholic Mass and is a perversion of that.

In The Satanic Bible one of the more famous references to lying involves dealing with the self-righteous, the incredulous, and the thrill-seekers. The lesson is that if someone wishes to enter a Satanist's space and treat them disrespectfully in some fashion, the Satanist is permitted (and encouraged) to have fun at that person's expense. If someone wants to hear the worst, a Satanist tells them the worse. "Of course we sacrifice fluffy kittens every full moon." "Of course our worship services always turn into massive orgies at the stroke of midnight." A Satanist is unconcerned with what these people think, because nothing is going to alter their preconceived notions anyway. One may as well get a little pleasure out of the interaction, no?


Thats a call to weakness. One can stand up for oneself and still serve the people around them. Its simply another lie that you have to shoot anger and hatred at those who cross you to be 'strong'. You've been lied to friend.




What is degrading about LaVeyan Satanic practices? Anyone who would allege something so ludicrous obviously knows nothing about the practices they speak of. The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head that could possibly be construed as degrading by the ignorant would be the use of nude females as altars during black masses. First, black masses are far from being a regular thing. Second, not all of them use nude female altars. Third, far from being degrading, it is empowering, completely voluntary, and actually a great honour for the lady in question. If someone finds nudity degrading, I'd say their issues would probably ensure that they don't go near a Satanic church in the first place.

As far as the invocation of spirits/demons...sorry, but you're still not quite on-target. It's true that some rituals involve naming specific entities (as incarnations of the overall Satanic force) these names do not mean the same thing to a Satanist as they do to outsiders. The naming process is a means of focusing energies. LaVeyan Satanists do not believe these entities reside anywhere but within our own minds. Any harm they cause springs from the will of the ritual's performer(s). I have never heard of any legitimate LaVeyan Satanists having their rituals backfire on them. I know none of mine did.


Hate is evil, mockery is evil, demons are evil. The actions of satanists defy what they say. You say its harmless I know these things to be harmful. Actions speak louder than words. Satanism makes a mockery out of my Christian faith. Satanists actions seek to defame and mock the faith of others. It is your freedom to do as you wish, but if you have convinced yourself that such actions are anything but evil. I can assure you that you are incorrect.

And no, LaVeyan Satanists serve no dark entities. They serve themselves and their loved ones.


So you have been told but your religion invokes the names of demons. Also the name of the religion is satanism yet people involved claim it has nothing to do with satan. Also the whole thing claims to be a-religious but spends the bulk of its text defaming other religions. The lie is obvious.




You're losing steam by this point, duncan.

I can go all day if you wish.



Also, if most churches are devoid of "real" spirituality, what's wrong with pointing out their flaws? You'd rather they be left alone to wallow in their own mediocrity?


The error occurs when a group promoting evil uses the faults of others to assert their correctness by default. Its how cults operate. They point out the flaws in the world, of which there are many, and use that to get a grip on people. Its basic flawed logic. X is flawed so Y is perfect.

And how do you define "attack" in the sense you used it in? Most Satanists simply have nothing to do with christianity


The main ritual of LaVey's religion is the black mass. Which is entirely based on Christianity. You either dont know the religion you speak of or you are trying to mislead.



"Satanists are to hate those who treat them poorly because they are to love themselves entirely. It's a matter of pride. The Satanist knows she is worthy of respect, and will not tolerate anyone who believes otherwise. "

The definition of evil is 'causing harm'. Certainly calling people to cause harm to others is evil. No one is perfect and we all lash out but good people strive to treat people well while sticking up for themselves. If you're telling me that somehow I am weak for having this view I will say you're wrong. I get great personal strength from approaching life this way. For me giving in to base emotions such as hate is something I consider weakness.

.



"In the future, if you want to be taken seriously as a critic of Satanism, it would behoove you to actually crack a book (or even open a webpage) and collect some firsthand knowledge rather than regurgitating your local pastor's talking points from last week's sermon. Until you show that you are capable of rational, independent thought, don't expect respect."

I am well versed on spiritual matters. Certainly well enough to form my own opinions about things such as LaVey's religion.

Let me explain. Evil(to purposefully cause harm) has been with man since the dawn of time. I realize that as long as evil operates within the law that it has the freedom to exist.
However in understanding evil, one understands its nature. Lying is obviously part of evil. Evil seeks to lie to make itself seem good and lie to make good look evil. Its the nature of things.

All people approaching spiritual practice should understand this. If you willfully want to practice evil that is ones personal choice. However it is beholden on good people to expose evil and reveal it for what it is when it attempts to gain power by deception. People deserve to make a conscious choice about their spirituality, whatever that might be.

That is my only intention in this post.

#37 Morbid

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 02:18 AM

If you've never been into satanism, you know basically nothing. They're harmless. They don't lie to you about things unless you start in with your religion or tell them they're wrong. I myself, not being a satanist, will start in with huge lies if you start preaching about my religion being wrong. Of course I sacrifice puppies and eat babies, what else would you sacrifice? It's nothing about not being strong, it's about not wanting to deal with people who are completely close minded to what I'm saying. If I tell you what you want to hear, or tell you horrible lies, you'll go away, and I won't have to deal with you.

Satanism isn't about lies. If you're a full on christian, you'll say that Satanists lie to you because they call their inner being Satan and call upon demons as a symbolic power. You believe these are lies because you believe in an actual "evil" being labeled satan. My one big question would be, WHY? What purpose could someone possibly have to lie to you about a religion? Lets say you read the book and look into it and decide it's right for you. You do rituals and have satanic mass, and you enjoy what you're doing. What did these "liars" get out of it? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

This forum isn't about bashing other religions.

You claim to know so much, but you're only seeing it from one sad little angle.

I fully agree with The V. He knows what he's talking about, and if you're open minded, you'll listen to what he says.

Also, one last thing, you mentioned that Anton's Black Mass was born of christianity, but have you looked into the roots of christianity? Paganism. It's all a deranged and deformed version of paganism. It was around much longer than christianity, and they're eerily similar in many places. Look into the story of Horus if you think your jesus is so special. You'll actually find many religions with one character that has all the properties of your jesus, and for the most part, they all came before his story.

Dark Blessings.

Edited by Morbid, 20 July 2009 - 02:19 AM.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted.The law of Chaos.

#38 duncan36

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 02:26 PM

If you've never been into satanism, you know basically nothing. They're harmless.

V himself said satanism tells you to do harm to people that they feel cross them. It is part of the religion so how can it possibly be 'harmless' that is a total contradiction in terms.

They don't lie to you about things unless you start in with your religion or tell them they're wrong. I myself, not being a satanist, will start in with huge lies if you start preaching about my religion being wrong.

Sorry I dont understand your point. I revealed what I believe to be the basic contradictions in LaVeyan satanism if you'd like to discuss what I said feel free.

Satanism isn't about lies. If you're a full on christian, you'll say that Satanists lie to you because they call their inner being Satan and call upon demons as a symbolic power. You believe these are lies because you believe in an actual "evil" being labeled satan. My one big question would be, WHY? What purpose could someone possibly have to lie to you about a religion?

Are you asking me why people lie? Because they're not good people, they enjoy it, they want to cause others harm. A multitude of reasons. Wouldnt you find it absurd if a Church called the Church of Christ said that Christ is a symbol for something else that yes they have images of Christ and invoke Christs name but they're not really worshipping Christ. See the basic contradiction there? You are worshipping Christ but someone else is telling you you are not worshipping Christ. The act of worship is the truth, what someone else is telling you is a lie.


This forum isn't about bashing other religions.


The truth is never bashing.


Also, one last thing, you mentioned that Anton's Black Mass was born of christianity, but have you looked into the roots of christianity? Paganism.

Most Christianity expressly forbids paganism, and spirit worship.

It's all a deranged and deformed version of paganism. It was around much longer than christianity, and they're eerily similar in many places. Look into the story of Horus if you think your jesus is so special.
You'll actually find many religions with one character that has all the properties of your jesus, and for the most part, they all came before his story.


I am an individualist not a doctrine follower so really this is all not very interesting to me. I only have trouble with doctrine when it is outright deceptive or malicious.

Dark Blessings.

:hug:

Edited by duncan36, 20 July 2009 - 02:29 PM.


#39 The V

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 06:17 PM

Okay, I wrote my response to this before I realized there was a limit to how many quotes it could contain. I'm going to try to edit it so it will work here, but please bear with me if any errors creep in. For comments I made previously, I will preface them with a V: and italicize them. For comments Duncan made previously, I will preface them with a D: and bold them. I hope that is clear enough.

Duncan, let me start by saying that I know I'm not going to change your mind. I'm very aware of this, and I don't have a problem with that. I certainly have no aspirations of inspiring anyone to convert to a belief system that I myself don't follow to the letter these days. Some might say that negates the need for debate. I disagree. As I said before, I am no longer a Satanist, but I maintain a deep respect and affection for the religion. I see it as a moral responsibility to do my part to clear up misconceptions about it, particularly in communities such as Ghostvillage where, even though I enjoy it, there is a lot of false information that gets spread around. Now that that's out of the way...

V: First of all, in LaVeyan (that's how you spell it) Satanism, the belief isn't that Satanists are created, but that they are born. Satanism is one of the few religions that does not proselytize. It is a belief system that people discover on their own, and if they find that it resonates with them, they stick with it.

D: Thats simply false. LaVey would appear on talk shows extensively extolling the virtues of his religion. He would seek famous people out to put in provocative photo ops for his religion. He created a provocative book called the 'satanic bible', a blatant attack on Christianity, and vigorously promoted it.

LaVey appeared on talk shows because of what I like to term the "freak show factor." Especially during the Satanic scares of the 1980's, Satanism equalled ratings. LaVey was a well-spoken, entertaining, and charismatic personality, with more than a little taste for publicity. You think the man wrote all those books because he didn't want to sell them?

Yes, there were celebrities who were involved in the Church of Satan. Three I can name off the top of my head are Jayne Mansfield, Sammy Davis, Jr., and Marilyn Manson. Manson was even ordained as a priest in the Church of Satan. It's true that celebrity involvement is a boon for any religion; Scientology set up their own celebrity outreach program for the express purpose of gaining converts. What's interesting is that this is only perceived as problematic when it's non-christian religions using celebrities as mouthpieces. No one seems to mind that Stephen Baldwin is a hardcore christian fundamentalist who pushes his bigoted and backward views on anyone within earshot at every opportunity. Celebrity membership is simply not a measuring stick for the evil of a particular religion.

LaVey wrote The Satanic Bible at the suggestion of a friend. He had been giving seminars at his home for quite some time on a variety of paranormal and occult topics before the idea of writing a book was presented to him. You may see it as an attack on christianity, as I'm sure many others do. There are parts of it that are critical of established belief systems. He also "attacks" the New Age movement, and I believe Wicca and Buddhism as well. I'm assuming you aren't offended by that, since you didn't mention it. That means your issue is personal, not philosophical.

And, again, nobody writes a book that they don't want to sell. Promotion is part of that. People like Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, and T.D. Jakes are guilty of the same thing on your side of the fence.

V: Second, you can read in The Satanic Bible that Satanists do not believe in harming the innocent, or even animals for that matter.

D: I notice your use of the word 'innocent' as you well know there is a passage in the Satanic bible that says its 'ok' to sacrifice someone deemed a bad person. This certainly qualifies as human sacrifice and therefore your assertion is incorrect.

What you're leaving out is the Satanic definition of human sacrifice, which I'm sure is intentional. How do Satanists sacrifice their enemies? They curse them. It's nothing like the traditionally-accepted vision of human sacrifice. It involves no bloodshed, no murder whatsoever. What it does involve is calling upon larger energies to give someone the punishment they deserve. Sometimes, this does result in death for the targeted party, if they are truly deserving of this fate. Tell the whole story, or tell none of it.

V: There have been occasional isolated incidents which have been very tenuously linked to "Satanism," mostly by outraged, uptight Christian organizations. The fact of the matter is that all of these incidents were the actions of mentally disturbed people or, at the very most, "devil worshippers." Any LaVeyan Satanist can tell you that not only are devil worshippers not true Satanists, but that these people are looked down upon and reviled by true Satanists.

D: I never said LaVeyan Satanists were all murdering, all committed to doing horrible things. If you actually read my post I in fact said the exact opposite. Its my assertion that LaVeyan Satanism, as the public face of satanism, purposefully is watered down. LaVey said as much during his life.

It's true that you didn't say all LaVeyan Satanists are engaged in horrendous activities. It is not true that you said the exact opposite. You half-implied that near the beginning of your screed, but you fully implied that their purpose was to cover up such activities by other groups by playing the "good guys."

As for the alleged comment by LaVey that LaVeyan Satanism is purposely watered-down, I'm going to need a source for that, because in all of his books and the many interviews with him I've watched and read, I've never heard him say anything like that.

V: Satanists lie. Buddhists lie. Jews, Christians, Muslims...they lie. Hindus, Scientologists, certainly...lie, lie lie. Where's the story here?

D: What other of these religions has such blatant lies in its doctrine? The name of the religion LaVey created is the Church of Satan. Yet these same people will tell you the name Satan is symbolic and not real. That is a ridiculous lie, in rituals the religions tells you to invoke the name of satan and various demons but its all symbolic. Its such a ridiculous lie its funny. Also if the religion is not based on the Christian belief of Satan, then why is such a large part of the religion devoted to attacking Christianity. Why is there so much focus on performing rituals like the black mass. A ritual that everyone will tell you is directly rated to the Catholic Mass and is a perversion of that.

That first sentence....

What other of these religions has such blatant lies in its doctrine?


Do we really want to go there? You know as well as I do that there isn't a religion out there that has an entirely lie-free doctrine. They all have to insert some sort of lies to fill in the gaps and attract followers. Whether it's making up a story to cover up a logical inconsistency, or stealing certain ideas from other religions to make themselves more palatable to converts, they're all guilty of it to a degree. It would take entirely too much space and time for me to point out the lies of christianity, for example, but most people who know what they're talking about are aware of the big ones.

As for the rest of this statement...Satanists believe in Satan as a symbolic entity and nothing more. You say that's a lie. You don't appear to understand that the only reason you believe it's a lie is because you disagree with their assertion. It's your opinion, and opinion does not equal fact. The fact of the matter is that yes, Satan (and any other names he may be called by) is an abstract symbol of the Satanist's will in LaVeyan Satanism.

And as much as you wish to feel persecuted by Satanism's existence, it's simply not the case. The black mass is a very minor ritual in LaVeyan Satanism, and many Satanists don't even use it, specifically because they don't like the connection with christianity, even if it's inverted. When it is performed, it's done for fun, as a form of what LaVey called psychodrama. It's a cathartic experience more than a spiritual one. If christians were held hostage and forced to witness and participate in it, then maybe you could call it an attack. They're not. On those grounds, the black mass is no more an attack on christianity than the Darwin fish you see on the cars of some people. It is an amusing perversion of established christian symbology used to make a simple point, and nothing more.

V: In The Satanic Bible one of the more famous references to lying involves dealing with the self-righteous, the incredulous, and the thrill-seekers. The lesson is that if someone wishes to enter a Satanist's space and treat them disrespectfully in some fashion, the Satanist is permitted (and encouraged) to have fun at that person's expense. If someone wants to hear the worst, a Satanist tells them the worse. "Of course we sacrifice fluffy kittens every full moon." "Of course our worship services always turn into massive orgies at the stroke of midnight." A Satanist is unconcerned with what these people think, because nothing is going to alter their preconceived notions anyway. One may as well get a little pleasure out of the interaction, no?

D: Thats a call to weakness. One can stand up for oneself and still serve the people around them. Its simply another lie that you have to shoot anger and hatred at those who cross you to be 'strong'. You've been lied to friend.

I don't get this "call to weakness" poppycock. It's a matter of amusing oneself at the expense of people who are asking for it. This is hardly weakness. It exploits weakness, certainly, but it is not weakness in its own right.

Satanists do serve the people around them: the people who deserve it. There is no "turning the other cheek" in Satanism, nor is there a "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." This is because Satanists don't make a habit of doing favours for their enemies. If someone treats a Satanist with respect, then respect is what they receive in return. If someone treats a Satanist with disrespect, then that disrespect is likewise reciprocated. It's not about giving people leeway. It's about giving people what they deserve.

V: What is degrading about LaVeyan Satanic practices? Anyone who would allege something so ludicrous obviously knows nothing about the practices they speak of. The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head that could possibly be construed as degrading by the ignorant would be the use of nude females as altars during black masses. First, black masses are far from being a regular thing. Second, not all of them use nude female altars. Third, far from being degrading, it is empowering, completely voluntary, and actually a great honour for the lady in question. If someone finds nudity degrading, I'd say their issues would probably ensure that they don't go near a Satanic church in the first place.

As far as the invocation of spirits/demons...sorry, but you're still not quite on-target. It's true that some rituals involve naming specific entities (as incarnations of the overall Satanic force) these names do not mean the same thing to a Satanist as they do to outsiders. The naming process is a means of focusing energies. LaVeyan Satanists do not believe these entities reside anywhere but within our own minds. Any harm they cause springs from the will of the ritual's performer(s). I have never heard of any legitimate LaVeyan Satanists having their rituals backfire on them. I know none of mine did.


D: Hate is evil, mockery is evil, demons are evil. The actions of satanists defy what they say. You say its harmless I know these things to be harmful. Actions speak louder than words. Satanism makes a mockery out of my Christian faith. Satanists actions seek to defame and mock the faith of others. It is your freedom to do as you wish, but if you have convinced yourself that such actions are anything but evil. I can assure you that you are incorrect.

Here are a few statements for you. Hate is not evil when it is reserved for those people and organizations which devalue your own existence. Mockery is not evil when someone goes out of their way to be mockable. Demons are not evil when they are not literal demons. Hell, there may even be some literal demons who aren't evil. The jury's still out on the existence of demons anyway.

If you believe Satanism makes a mockery of your faith, it is only because you perceive it that way. You are not a Satanist, and I'm assuming never have been one, so you only have one set of criteria to go by on that claim. You say you know these things are harmful; I say that is, again, your opinion, and opinion is not synonymous with fact in all cases. Most Satanists actually don't go out of their way to defame and mock the faith of others, preferring instead to leave them alone and simply not take part. You obviously don't know many, if any, Satanists, or you would realize that this assertion is pure balderdash.

The more you go on here, the more you prove that your grudge against Satanism is a personal issue, not based in objective reality, but rather in your own preconceived notions about it. You're mad because Satanists refuse to accept your religion at its word and convert to what is, in your opinion, the only true faith. You're cherrypicking, misrepresenting, and spreading disinformation because you believe you are on some sort of spiritual crusade. It's perfectly fine if you don't like Satanism, duncan, just as it's perfectly fine if Satanists don't like your religion. But what you're doing on this thread is the real attack, and it is much more blatant and direct than any "attacks" on your faith by the existence of Satanism.

V: And no, LaVeyan Satanists serve no dark entities. They serve themselves and their loved ones.

D: So you have been told but your religion invokes the names of demons. Also the name of the religion is satanism yet people involved claim it has nothing to do with satan. Also the whole thing claims to be a-religious but spends the bulk of its text defaming other religions. The lie is obvious.

I have been told nothing. I have read most of LaVey's books, and I have read other texts which discuss demons and the like, and I have formed my own opinions on the matter. That's one thing Satanism gave me that has stayed with me, a refusal to accept anything at face value. Without getting into a lot of detail, because ths isn't the thread for it, I believe that most "demons" are little more than tulpas, empowered, certainly, but empowered by the intent of their summoner/creator.

As I said, it is called Satanism for shock value and the attention that draws. It has absolutely nothing to do with the christian version of Satan.

And no, the bulk of its text does not defame other religions. The bulk of its text glorifies Satanism. The bulk of the bible glorifies christianity. You don't see me accusing the bible of defaming Satanism, even though it does. It's a matter of personal perception, not absolute truth.

And, to be clear, the only reason you or any christian has to believe the bible is true is because you have been told it is, in the book itself and by countless clergypeople and believers.

V: You're losing steam by this point, duncan.

D: I can go all day if you wish.

Knock yourself out, sweetness.

V: Also, if most churches are devoid of "real" spirituality, what's wrong with pointing out their flaws? You'd rather they be left alone to wallow in their own mediocrity?

D: The error occurs when a group promoting evil uses the faults of others to assert their correctness by default. Its how cults operate. They point out the flaws in the world, of which there are many, and use that to get a grip on people. Its basic flawed logic. X is flawed so Y is perfect.

Except that Satanists only promote evil as you understand it. One man's evil is another man's virtue, after all. And really, bringing up cults? You must honestly know nothing about the Church of Satan, or any legitimate Satanic organizations, because if you did you'd know full well that there is absolutely nothing cultlike about them. That's more of that disinformation, duncan. At least admit that you have an agenda, and that it consists of badmouthing anyone who disagrees with your personal beliefs.

X may be flawed, but that doesn't mean Y is perfect, and that's not something Satanism claims. What Satanism claims is that it is perfect for Satanists. Christianity is perfect for christians. Buddhism is perfect for Buddhists. Every religion is perfect for its followers, and if it isn't, they pick another one. You chose to be a christian. You choose to feel persecuted by those who disagree with you. You choose the reality you're living in.

V: And how do you define "attack" in the sense you used it in? Most Satanists simply have nothing to do with christianity.

D: The main ritual of LaVey's religion is the black mass. Which is entirely based on Christianity. You either dont know the religion you speak of or you are trying to mislead.

And, again, I point out that the black mass is a very minor ritual that many do not even use. You either don't know the religion you speak of or you are trying to mislead.

V: Satanists are to hate those who treat them poorly because they are to love themselves entirely. It's a matter of pride. The Satanist knows she is worthy of respect, and will not tolerate anyone who believes otherwise.

D: The definition of evil is 'causing harm'. Certainly calling people to cause harm to others is evil. No one is perfect and we all lash out but good people strive to treat people well while sticking up for themselves. If you're telling me that somehow I am weak for having this view I will say you're wrong. I get great personal strength from approaching life this way. For me giving in to base emotions such as hate is something I consider weakness.

Your definition of evil is "causing harm." Satanism does not call for anyone to harm anyone beyond the occasional curse, and only then after careful deliberation and sureness of self. You see disrespect as harm. You're entitled to believe that, as anyone is entitled to be wrong. I have no opinion on your relative strength or weakness, because I don't know you or care about you. If you think hatred is a weakness, more power to you. I disagree.

V: In the future, if you want to be taken seriously as a critic of Satanism, it would behoove you to actually crack a book (or even open a webpage) and collect some firsthand knowledge rather than regurgitating your local pastor's talking points from last week's sermon. Until you show that you are capable of rational, independent thought, don't expect respect.

D: I am well versed on spiritual matters. Certainly well enough to form my own opinions about things such as LaVey's religion.

Let me explain. Evil(to purposefully cause harm) has been with man since the dawn of time. I realize that as long as evil operates within the law that it has the freedom to exist.

However in understanding evil, one understands its nature. Lying is obviously part of evil. Evil seeks to lie to make itself seem good and lie to make good look evil. Its the nature of things.

All people approaching spiritual practice should understand this. If you willfully want to practice evil that is ones personal choice. However it is beholden on good people to expose evil and reveal it for what it is when it attempts to gain power by deception. People deserve to make a conscious choice about their spirituality, whatever that might be.

That is my only intention in this post.


Yes, you can form your own opinion on things such as LaVeyan Satanism. It is more worthwhile to have actual facts to back up those opinions. So far, the few facts you have presented are tangential to your argument and cherrypicked in order to support your own narrow view on the subject.

Your statements regarding evil and its nature show off your true colours once again: in your opinion, evil is anything which does not mesh with your personal definition of good.

You're putting on what LaVey called "the Good-Guy badge" in an attempt to place yourself on a pedestal of moral authority, when in actuality the only "truth" you have to back up your spurious claims consists entirely of your personal opinions. Maybe you are a good person. Maybe you're not. Maybe I'm a good person. Maybe I'm not. It all depends on who's doing the assessment, doesn't it? You say that "good" people need to expose evil when it uses deception to gain power. Well, if I assume I'm a good person, then by your criteria it is beholden on me to point out that you have done nothing but deceive since you entered this conversation.

It's one thing to present an alternate viewpoint. It a completely different thing to use lies and deception to discredit a group of people who don't happen to follow your chosen religion. If you had a leg to stand on, you wouldn't have to lie.

Satanism is no better or worse than any other religion, including your own. Pointing this out is my only intention in this post.

And now my reply to duncan's reply to Morbid's reply.


D: V himself said satanism tells you to do harm to people that they feel cross them. It is part of the religion so how can it possibly be 'harmless' that is a total contradiction in terms.

No, that is not what I said. Satanism allows for an individual to curse whoever crosses him, and though Satanists certainly believe that this causes them harm, it is not a guarantee of such. Satanists are forbidden from physically harming another person outside of the usual circumstances (self-defense, war, etc.). In this respect, it is different from more mainstream religions like islam and christianity, because Satanists generally don't make a habit of murdering non-believers and others who act against them.

D: Are you asking me why people lie? Because they're not good people, they enjoy it, they want to cause others harm. A multitude of reasons. Wouldnt you find it absurd if a Church called the Church of Christ said that Christ is a symbol for something else that yes they have images of Christ and invoke Christs name but they're not really worshipping Christ. See the basic contradiction there? You are worshipping Christ but someone else is telling you you are not worshipping Christ. The act of worship is the truth, what someone else is telling you is a lie.

Let's not forget lies that are intended to avoid hurting someone's feelings or insulting them. "No, those jeans don't make your butt look fat." But if you're going to pick on lies in the realm of the Satanic, then you also need to pick on the lies of Hollywood and fiction writers, because those lies all serve the same purpose: entertainment.

As for the "real Satan"/"symbolic Satan" issue...it doesn't exist. Satan is nothing but a name, a name which, in this day and age, draws a specific reaction from most people. The name Satan actually means "adversary" in its original language. I don't remember off the top of my head if it was Hebrew, Aramaic, or what. Satanists embrace the title of Satan because they see themselves as adversaries of the status quo, conformity, and the herd mentality of most modern religions. To be a Satanist is to be an individual, and to be proud of that.

D: The truth is never bashing.

Then start telling the truth and people will stop accusing you of bashing.

Morbid said: "Also, one last thing, you mentioned that Anton's Black Mass was born of christianity, but have you looked into the roots of christianity? Paganism."

[b]D: Most Christianity expressly forbids paganism, and spirit worship.


That's a convenient sidestep there. You didn't even come close to addressing Morbid's point. For the record...he's not just correct with that statement, he's overwhelmingly correct with that statement.

Morbid said: "It's all a deranged and deformed version of paganism. It was around much longer than christianity, and they're eerily similar in many places. Look into the story of Horus if you think your jesus is so special. You'll actually find many religions with one character that has all the properties of your jesus, and for the most part, they all came before his story."

[b]D: I am an individualist not a doctrine follower so really this is all not very interesting to me. I only have trouble with doctrine when it is outright deceptive or malicious.


Another convenient sidestep. You don't find it at all interesting that the christian concept of "jesus" is a completely plagiarized idea? The only new idea christianity brought to the table was their particular concept of "hell." Everything else had been done before, in many cases centuries before christianity poked its head up and squinted at the sun.

After reading your posts, duncan, I can come to some very definite, concrete conclusions:

1. Any religion which does not mesh 100% with your own chosen belief system is based on "lies" and is inherently "evil."

2. You like to pick and choose the examples you use to illustrate your points, even when your assertions are verifiably false should anyone care to actually do their own research.

3. If you cannot successfully argue against a point, you brush it aside and pretend it is not important.

4. You had an agenda before you ever contributed to this post, and that agenda was to oppose, by any means necessary, those people who subscribe to this particular faith.

5. You feel personally perescuted by the existence of Satanism, so you return that persecution in turn with some of the most malicious disinformation I have ever heard re: Satanism.

Satanism has had no Crusades, no Inquisition, they don't bomb abortion clinics and gay bars, they don't coerce children and the mentally challenged into embracing the faith through threats and fear, they don't proselytize to the disinterested, they don't ask their followers for dollar after dollar to subsidize what is, effectively, a for-profit operation, they don't tell their followers that they are unworthy of salvation, they don't offer salvation by killing their deity, they don't eat flesh or drink blood, literally or figuratively...I could go on if you like.

The Church of Satan has, since its inception, given equal standing and status to women, racial and ethnic minorities, and GLBT individuals. It is one of the only religious organizations that can say that. It is a religion built upon affirming the individual's status as a powerful and worthwhile human being, in charge of his or her own destiny, and capable of virtually anything he or she would want to accomplish. It is a religion which places a premium on self-respect, self-sufficiency and personal responsibility. It does not devalue love by giving it to those who do not deserve it. It is based upon respect for nature, kinship with the animal kingdom, and being good stewards of the planet.

The Satanic religion is a beautiful, practical system, hands down. It is a modern religion, based in the modern world, and built for the modern individual. It tolerates the existence of contrary religious systems so long as they do not interfere with its own followers and their goals.

Satanism is one of the only religions which not only respects its followers as they are, but encourages them to better themselves at the same time. I can't see anything "evil" about that.

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#40 duncan36

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 08:54 PM

You may see it as an attack on christianity, as I'm sure many others do.


I dont rely on what I see. The black mass is 100% known to be a ritual that purposefully makes a mockery of Christianity and more specifically the catholic mass. Christians consider it highly offensive. Get your facts straight please.

It's true that you didn't say all LaVeyan Satanists are engaged in horrendous activities. It is not true that you said the exact opposite. You half-implied that near the beginning of your screed, but you fully implied that their purpose was to cover up such activities by other groups by playing the "good guys."


What do you want me to say that no satanists commit crimes inspired by the satanic bible. Thats impossible to say because there are documented cases of it happening. Now have some nuts committed crimes because of what they read in the bible. I would say so. As far as me implying anything else post specific examples make your specific point I have no idea what you're talking about in such generalities.

I don't get this "call to weakness" poppycock. It's a matter of amusing oneself at the expense of people who are asking for it. This is hardly weakness. It exploits weakness, certainly, but it is not weakness in its own right.


Your choice of how to behave is your own. However know that some people are not so base in their reactions to others.

As for the rest of this statement...Satanists believe in Satan as a symbolic entity and nothing more. You say that's a lie. You don't appear to understand that the only reason you believe it's a lie is because you disagree with their assertion. It's your opinion, and opinion does not equal fact. The fact of the matter is that yes, Satan (and any other names he may be called by) is an abstract symbol of the Satanist's will in LaVeyan Satanism.


Personally I'd feel a fool if I spent all my time worshipping Christ, went to a Church called Church of Christ. Did prayers and rituals to Christ. But didnt really believe what I was doing had anything to do with the real Christ. The question becomes is what I am doing more important than what I think I'm doing. Just by invoking the name of Christ does that have its own power. And is the opposite true in LaVey's religion?

Here are a few statements for you. Hate is not evil when it is reserved for those people and organizations which devalue your own existence..


The dictionary definition of evil is 'to cause harm'. Hatred causes others harm. Case closed.

Satanism has had no Crusades, no Inquisition, they don't bomb abortion clinics and gay bars, they don't coerce children and the mentally challenged into embracing the faith through threats and fear, they don't proselytize to the disinterested, they don't ask their followers for dollar after dollar to subsidize what is, effectively, a for-profit operation, they don't tell their followers that they are unworthy of salvation, they don't offer salvation by killing their deity, they don't eat flesh or drink blood, literally or figuratively...I could go on if you like.


You're proving my point about satanism relying on attacking others to seek to justify itself. What on earth does the Crusades have to do with modern America? We have freedom of religion. People are allowed to do as they please as long as it is within the confines of the law.

" Any religion which does not mesh 100% with your own chosen belief system is based on "lies" and is inherently "evil.""

Evil is defined as causing harm. You've described the belief you are justified to cause harm(hate) people who cross you. A belief espoused by LaVey. This fits the textbook definition of evil.

"You like to pick and choose the examples you use to illustrate your points, even when your assertions are verifiably false should anyone care to actually do their own research."

Its called an argument. Just because your opinion differs from mine that doesnt make my opinion 'false'.


"If you cannot successfully argue against a point, you brush it aside and pretend it is not important."

Again its an argument I'm not going to write a dissertation for every point you try to make.

"You had an agenda before you ever contributed to this post, and that agenda was to oppose, by any means necessary, those people who subscribe to this particular faith."

Incorrect. I specifically said people have the right to choose their own path several times. I just pointed out what I see as deceptions in LaVey's religion.

You feel personally perescuted by the existence of Satanism, so you return that persecution in turn with some of the most malicious disinformation I have ever heard re: Satanism.

:clap: :clap:


The Church of Satan has, since its inception, given equal standing and status to women, racial and ethnic minorities, and GLBT individuals. It is one of the only religious organizations that can say that. It is a religion built upon affirming the individual's status as a powerful and worthwhile human being, in charge of his or her own destiny, and capable of virtually anything he or she would want to accomplish. It is a religion which places a premium on self-respect, self-sufficiency and personal responsibility. It does not devalue love by giving it to those who do not deserve it. It is based upon respect for nature, kinship with the animal kingdom, and being good stewards of the planet.

The Satanic religion is a beautiful, practical system, hands down. It is a modern religion, based in the modern world, and built for the modern individual. It tolerates the existence of contrary religious systems so long as they do not interfere with its own followers and their goals.


Wow sounds great sign me up! Just kidding. :hug:

Edited by duncan36, 20 July 2009 - 08:58 PM.


#41 The V

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 09:41 PM

Well, this is officially no longer entertaining. Your posts were a lot more fun to read when you put some actual effort into them. All that last one did is make my head hurt. You aren't interested in a discussion; you're only looking for conflict, and I really have better things to do. I've already debunked your every claim, and you have proven unable to answer even the most basic of challenges in return. I'm done for the time being. Good luck exposing all those evil Satanists out there.

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#42 Morbid

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:04 PM

I thought an attack was something between two or more people. Satanic Mass is done away from, and out of range of, any christians. If it was an attack, they would be going to your churches and having their mass right outside when your sunday mass is happening. A bit of mockery in a private setting is nothing close to an attack. Look at the baptists that hold their signs at the funerals of soldiers. THAT my friend is an attack.

What can be said about the christians who've committed crimes in the name of the bible? How many people have been killed because of the bible? To say that people have committed crimes because of the satanic bible is crazy. How many people have committed crimes because of movies, books, video games, music, and any other thing they can blame it on?

Tell me you've never lied to someone to get a rise out of them. "Hey you're shoes untied! Ha ha!" It's not a big deal, and it's their way to get people to leave them alone. Satanists just want the christians and preaching to go away, so they say what they can to get you to leave. I'm no longer into Satanism, but if one of the cults come to my door preaching, I'll say anything to get them to go away. I'll dawn my inverted cross and play something too heavy for them to understand, and then tear their religion to pieces. To be fair, anyone calls me to sell me something, they get the same treatment.

Satanism doesn't just pray to satan as a symbol. They believe they are their own gods, and call themselves satan, thus the phrase "Hail Satan". But they don't believe in a ghoulie living underground with horns, tail, and pitchfork in stow. That's just crazy.

Hatred is not harm. You say hatred causes others harm, but most times no one knows of the hate. I hate a lot of people and a lot of things, and none of them know, or feel a thing. And do you really believe it is evil to harm someone who deserves it? Republicans are a christian based group, they'll tell you themselves, but are full on advocates of war and the death penalty. War causes much harm to many people, thus evil?

You've still not remarked about the story of Horus being almost exactly that of your jesus, but coming long before him.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.The law of Chaos.

#43 duncan36

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:37 PM

Hatred causes yourself harm as well as possibly hurts others. You as well as others deserve better.
I can personally tell you anyone telling you to hate others isnt doing so in your best interests.

#44 jakob493

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:43 AM

Hatred causes yourself harm as well as possibly hurts others. You as well as others deserve better.
I can personally tell you anyone telling you to hate others isnt doing so in your best interests.


Have you never felt hatred, duncan, since becoming a part of your christian beliefs? Has that entire chunk of negative emotion been wiped clean from your brain since you've accepted belief in this religion?

It sounds nice. But I'm thinking it's not, well, reality.

I hate a lot of people. I hate the person that bullied me in junior high. I hate the E! Network cause frankly, it's annoying. I hate the guy that tried to sexually abuse my girlfriend, and if I ever saw him, I'd give him another black eye to go with the one SHE gave him.

Hating is just as natural as loving. And I hate people that give me a reason to, and that's okay. If someone attacked your wife/significant other, (to assume you have one, duncan) would you love the attacker as much as your neighbor? For her sake, I hope not.

But it doesn't have to be that blatant. You can hate "silently" and that doesn't hurt anyone, as Morbid said. If anything it's gratifying for yourself.

You can't love everyone, and you can't hate everyone. Trying either of these is probably pretty bad for you. Hating everyone could send you in a spiral of depression, and loving everyone cause get you a bad case of meningitis... All jokes aside, of course. :wow:


But there's one more thing I want to point out, duncan. You can't just say that there are "documented cases" of ANYTHING happening and expecting anyone with a shred of critical thinking to take that at face value. Say that, and follow it with....uh.. documentation, perhaps.

#45 PHANTOM MONK

PHANTOM MONK

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 01:16 PM

:hug: I had started a thread here about Demonic Hauntings and have gotten a lot of answers mostly from people who felt they had been attacked or been near an attack of demonic spirits. Some have had religious and non religious exorcisms. It seems that I am one of the few here who has never had a run in with a demonic force. I guess I doubt the existence of evil forces. I believe in angry, rude and nasty human spirits and non human elementals who no matter what their general atmosphere have no sense of good or evil. That brings me to the question here.Are there are any members here who call upon "Dark Entities" in their practice of witch craft, directed magic, rituals etc...... Is anyone here a Satanist?

I know some people use the Satanic Bible and have read it myself. If I remember correctly it is more of a doing whats best for you and yours and don't waste time and energy on worshiping a deity that seems to do all the taking with little reward during your life. I am paraphrasing here because it has been at least 35 years but I remember the gist of it.

But seriously if anyone here does use or worship dark powers could you let us know about it. I promise that at least for my part to keep an open mind but I am interested in how you came to that and if it works for you. Plus what are your expectations for the next life?

Sharon

Anyone who claims to be a "satanist" and I have run across a lot in my time, I do a lot of questioning to see if they know what they are talking about and their belief systems. How do they define "satan" ,first of all, fallen angel or evil from his/her creation? Yep, some have raised the question of the gender of "satan", aside from worshiping him/her..As for names, "satan" or "lucifer", different names,different rituals? Seems sorta unclear. As for the "Satanic Bible", there seems to be quite a few, some are called "Black Books", others by other titles. Seems who you ask. Human sacrifice, some say it's necessary others say it isn't so. Just bad press. Just more fiction or pretend acting than spillinng of human blood than mating of human with the demonic forces. Lots of interesting aspects that include "satanism" in its title but what it is is anybody's guess..




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