71 replies to this topic

[hippityhoohaa]

I can conduct the illusion of psychic abilities, clairvoyance, mediumship etc. From reading a lot of posts on these forums I can see anyone who believes in ghosts has a gross misunderstanding or misapplication of the scientific method. But of course your response will be "ohh no it's you who isn't open minded".

That is why I invite absolutely anyone here, or anywhere else (even if you're just reading this forum and are not registered), who claims to possess any supernatural power (whether you think you're a psychic, can talk to the dead, or do anything else) to add me to Yahoo Messenger on hippityhoohaa@y7mail.com and prove it to me. Tell me things about myself that a stranger couldn't possibly know, and that are statistically unlikely to be random.

Through text, I ask you to demonstrate to me even the slightest thing that I, as a skeptic, would not be able to explain normally. Don't attempt anything vague on me, because I probably know cold reading better than you do. The reason I'm making this post is to show everyone that if you believe in anything supernatural, then you can be almost certain that you're deluded.

If anyone can convince me of any supernatural ability, however slight, I will not only give them $1000USD, but I will also promote them in a way they never imagined. If you fail however, which I know everyone will, then I reserve the right to publish our full conversation here, or anywhere else I choose, for everyone to see.

I'm trying to compile a lists of fakes, or people who genuinely believe they have paranormal abilities but obviously suffer from a mental illness, so that I can put together a book demonstrating to vulnerable minds that there is indeed no such thing as the supernatural.

So go ahead, add me on hippityhoohaa@y7mail.com if you think you're a psychic, medium, or anything else that you think you can prove. Be reminded however that I reserve the right to publish our full conversation anywhere I please. And please don't try any fraudulent techniques or ask me to provide you any detailed information about myself, as I'm probably a better trickster than you are and don't fall for such things. People who play upon the vulnerable with their charlatanism sicken me.

I dare anyone to step up to this challenge. If no one does, then it just goes to show what a hoax any psychics here are when confronted by someone who knows their tricks.

Edited by hippityhoohaa, 03 April 2009 - 11:26 PM.

[plindboe]

Welcome abord, hippityhoohaa, it's good with another skeptic here. That said, I advice you to calm down and try to respect believers, even if you don't respect their beliefs. There's no surer way to close people's minds, than by calling them stupid and delusional. Having had my share of heated discussions here in the past, I'm probably the last who should give such advice, but nonetheless, it's still very valid advice.

[hippityhoohaa]

Thanks for the welcome plindboe.

You are quite right about my introduction being a little heated, and perhaps it didn't abide by forum rules, but I read over a post with someone seeking genuine advice about commuing with their deceased brother, and I think it's important that such people are given no false illusion as to whether such things are possible.

If I can save someone here wasting a few thousand dollars by being a little rude in my post I think that's more important than respecting the opinions of those who would offer false advice to such people. So alas, my offer in this post still stands. With that being said perhaps my stay here will be short-lived, but I'm pleased to see that there are other rational minded people here.

I do often wonder where mysticism is going to take our society unless we deal with it head on, and without respect. We're entering into an age where weaponry is reaching the potential to destroy our entire species, and I therefore believe that superstition should be eradicated from any area of influence, especially politics.

[greg_dragonlvr]

Welcome to the GV.

Sorry I can't respond to your challenge, but I can't levitate or bend spoons or read a crystal ball. Never have seen a ghost and usually can't make out anything on those EVPs.

If you delve further into the boards, you will find you're not alone in your beliefs. There are many here that are straight debunkers. And that's cool. For any debate, you need two sides.

Don't think its constructive for either side to automatically deny the potential for either reality. The believers who condemn the skeptics for fools and the non-believers to label the paranormal community as charlatans and idiots.

Have stumbled around the world a couple of times in my 50 years. And what I can say is that there are things I can't explain and that severely challenge my engineering training. Can't explain the mechanics and the physics that made them happen and by all rights shouldn't have happened.

It makes me question and makes me curious. That's why I'm here from time to time. Your challenge is not an original one, there are several out there for considerably more cash. It will be a long time before the paranormal and the established scientific community reach a point where there's even a common language. So, your money will be safe for a while.

Relax and enjoy the boards. And as the psychics can't prove it to the scientists and the scientists haven't developed the gear to disprove it, just have fun with the debate.

[hippityhoohaa]

Thank you for the welcome vindalf.

I couldn't agree more that both sides need to be open minded. I'd love for someone to present to me some evidence that would make me believe in something supernatural.

I'd absolutely agree that there are some deeply mysterious things in life that we can't explain, and I can therefore relate to your interest. What upsets me however is that people will come up with "default explanations" for how these phenomena occur, without any empirical evidence to back up their assertions. These are the same people that will tell us "science can't tell us everything", which of course we know it cannot, but nor can they, and that's what I fear they do not understand. When I refer to anyone being "stupid" or "delusional" I'm refering to those sorts of people.

The investigation of any form of phenomena is of course valid science, and I love learning the explanations behind how some forms of phenomena work, particularly phenomena that other people would label as "supernatural".

Quantum mechanics, a field I know absolutely nothing about, seems to me deeply mysterious, and far more fascinating than any "evidence of psi". I just think if people looked to the natural world, they will find much more awe than they would find in fairy tales.

[Entity]

hippityhoohaa, on Apr 4 2009, 02:44 AM, said:

These are the same people that will tell us "science can't tell us everything", which of course we know it cannot, but nor can they, and that's what I fear they do not understand. When I refer to anyone being "stupid" or "delusional" I'm refering to those sorts of people.

If science cant explain everything then what are you basing your "skill test challenge" on?

[hippityhoohaa]

Entity,

Science cannot explain everything, however the scientific method is the best model for investigating new phenomena. That's essentially what science is, a mechanism for investigation. I'd be using the scientific method of investigation for anyone that presents to me any new so called "phenomena".

There's no qualms about investigating that which is unknown, it's just the mechanism that's used. In my opinion the scientific method is the best, and has been proven to be the best model of investigation time and time again. It results in the closest thing that we could call "truth" and gets rid of fiction. Sure, it's stringent, and hard, but that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

[Entity]

hippityhoohaa, on Apr 4 2009, 11:03 AM, said:

Entity,

Science cannot explain everything, however the scientific method is the best model for investigating new phenomena. That's essentially what science is, a mechanism for investigation. I'd be using the scientific method of investigation for anyone that presents to me any new so called "phenomena".

There's no qualms about investigating that which is unknown, it's just the mechanism that's used. In my opinion the scientific method is the best, and has been proven to be the best model of investigation time and time again. It results in the closest thing that we could call "truth" and gets rid of fiction. Sure, it's stringent, and hard, but that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

But tell me one thing friend, to explain an "unknown" or "unexplained" phenomenon how do the known methods of science help? If it could, then it is not an unexplained phenomenon. Unless you (or anyone) can satisfactorily explain what methods and procedure do you (or they) follow so as to prove or disprove? and if you (or anyone) says that

Quote

In my opinion the scientific method is the best, and has been proven to be the best model of investigation time and time again.

that is merely a personal opinion without any backup, eh?

[hippityhoohaa]

The methods themselves bear no relation to the phenomena being investigated. These methods have been used to investigate many "unknown" and "unexplained" phenomena of the past. It was thought by some that we evolved from other animals, long before Darwin, so that in itself made evolution an "unexplained phenomenan". However, when Darwin proposed his theory surrounding the "process" of evolution, which was natural selection, we understood the phenomenan. We did not need to make any alterations to the scientific method, rather the scientific method ensured that natural selection was the widely accepted process of evolution (this of course happened much later after Darwin proposed his theory, but it happened nevertheless).

If we didn't have the scrutiny of the scientific method, then any proposition for any process could become "fact". A blur on a camera would "definitely become a ghost", and hence if we forego science, we delve back into the dark ages of mysticism.

The procedures I would use to verify whether anyone is a "medium" or a "psychic" are very straightforward. I'd simply simulate a controlled setting where I would ask the person to tell me anything about myself, whether current or in the past, that would be highly improbable for anyone to guess outside of chance, or through other natural techniques (such as cold reading). If such statements about my life are made, about a number I'm thinking of, or about anything else like that, then further investigation would be warranted and I'd of course pay my $1000. It's that simple.

However if anyone were to say that "psychic abilities don't necessarily have any greater accuracy than chance" then such "psychic abilities" aren't falsifiable and have no place in any scientific enquiry.

[MoonChild]

For anyone who would be communicating to members using tools outside of GhostVillage (emails, chat etc) please keep in mind that GhostVillage do not hold any responsibility to whatever transpires. You are all free to use whatever tools you want to, but the consequences would be completely your personal responsibility.

Thank you

[Kira]

Thanks Moonchild, I wanted to mention to the poster that GV does not endorse psychics, mediums, etc, in the practice of the field here on Ghostvillage for money. It is simply not allowed.And is stated in the member guidelines. GV does have a page that advertises psychics, however I don't think any of those people are regular posters or even members on the boards, at least not active. So it's not as if the psychics, et al. are waiting like vultures, for people in need of advice of a loved one, ready to pounce on them and steal all their money. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If you read more of the posts, what you will see is discussion, lots of debate, personal opinions and much respect of alternate points of view. Personally I always think it's a really good idea to lurk around a place a while before jumping in with rash assumptions about people you don't even know. If I do say so myself, we are a family and a pretty good crowd.

Edited by Kira, 04 April 2009 - 04:34 PM.

[Axman]

I guess I'm one of the people who believe that the paranormal is real but I also don't believe that everything presented is paranormal.

[canuck]

I go away for a while, thinking I have left the board in good order, and when I get back look what I find!

So we have a new self appointed cheerleader for “science” and “skeptics”. As all previous cheerleaders, he has chosen to attack, and slash and burn; this approach merely serves to reinforce his particular beliefs. Emphasis on the word “beliefs”. It does nothing to advance any argument.

Usually, these “skeptics” have some entertainment value; and it is often great fun to push their buttons. However, after a while that wears thin and becomes just plain tedious and boring.

Therefore I suggest that before anyone appoint themselves as a cheerleader for any side that they apply “the scientific method”.

That is: they familiarize themselves with the available literature; that they read and understand the discussions and arguments that have been previously advanced; that they familiarize themselves with the history and philosophy of science; that they familiarize themselves with the realities of “science” and the science industry.

Once they have gone through that process, they may find that they have something new or interesting to add. In the meantime, a respectful silence would be appropriate.

[hippityhoohaa]

And I suppose the great wise Canuck has spoken.

The purpose of this post was to bring forth any psychics or mediums and have them demonstrate to me any supernatural abilities for a $1000 reward. Your response has not contributed anything to this discussion and has merely served as an ad hominem insult.

Thank you all the same.

[CaveRat2]

Hippityhoohaa, your offer is cheap... Randi will pay a million $$$$ to prove the same thing!! You'll have to do better than that!!!!

Ok now I've started off insulting you in like manner. (Gotta be fair about it!)

Seriously though I am one who supports scientific protocols and have stated so on many occassions. I apply your same type of protocols and have even asked many times why mediums and sensitives are so opposed to being put to the test. We as scientists use equipment which is calibrated on a regular basis, just to insure it is working up to what the manufacturer claims. Why don't we insist on the same thing of mediums?

So my first step to you is to devise a test or proceedure so to speak to "calibrate" a medium. Post this method,or test. Determine publicly what standards would be acceptable. Every device has a range of acceptance, that is a tolerance. It may state that the device is acurrate to within 1 % or 10%. So as such, post your acceptance standards for a medium, that is if pure randomness says 50% is expected, does 70% indicate an ability? Or is it more like 90%? Set your standards and devise a test to meet them. Then the medium who steps up has some rational means of gauging themselves as well. Its' a two-way street.

I wish you well in your project. Sorry I can't take you up on anything because I will admit my talent as a medium is exactly zero. I have seen a few things as a researcher that certainly fit the standards of paranormal, and have documented them as well. But as a repeatable scientiofic experiment so far nothing. Which doesn't stop me from trying various ideas. If any actually do pan out, then I'll take you up on your offer. And rest assurred, my standards are every bit as high as yours. So if you hear from me saying I have proof, you better get your wallet out......

I agree much that is presented IS a hoax or at the least a misidentification of something mundane. But before you use the term ALL, you better be ready to explain every one of them. After all, both sides, believer AND skeptic have a responsibility to explain their position. Just because it can be faked doesn't mean it was. I personally have seen a few things that I admit I can't explain. Does that make them paranormal? Not neccessarily, but before they can be ruled not paranormal, the skeptic has to prove that side as well. For now they simply remain unexplained.