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Question: re: reconciliation of body and soul


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#16 canuck

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 01:30 AM

Hey Shawn:

Your clarifications and corrections have introduced a degree of consistency and coherence that was lacking before. Thank you.

However, in that the body evidently does influence the development of “the soul”, why do we need a body at all?

Studies of the “near death experience” demonstrate that “the soul” is capable of independent existence. While wandering free during this experience, it can see its surroundings, it can hear conversations and other sounds, it can understand and process information, and it can remember events.

In other words, it has all the facility for sensory input and information processing capabilities that are also possessed by the body. With these capabilities, it should be able to develop and mature independently of the body, and thereby forego the risk of being damaged or corrupted in the event of the body or brain suffering some trauma.

So why does “the soul” need a body; why take the risk?

Why doesn’t “the soul” always exist as an independent entity?

#17 canuck

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:26 PM

If we accept the premise that the body and the “soul” are two separate and distinct entities; the body influences the development of the soul; and the “soul” has a continuing existence, how does cloning fit into all of this?

Specifically, cloning of various animals is currently commonplace. Apparently, the only constraint on the cloning of humans is legal, as opposed to technical.

So, assume that a human has been cloned, and there are now multiple copies of him/her running around, in addition to the original.

What happens to the soul? Is it subdivided amongst the clones? Or is a new soul cloned along with each physical clone?

If a new soul is created for each clone, at what point is it injected into the new body; is it at the point the DNA is extracted from the original? Or is it after a certain number of cell divisions?

What happens at death? Do all the clones get together and fuse into one? Or do they enter the big beyond as distinct entities?

Any ideas on this?

#18 robinrenee

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 04:23 PM

I usually preface my statements in a discussion group with “I believe” or “I think,” if I respond at all; however, your questions are so sincere and erudite that I feel that you are pursuing Spookology for all the best reasons. So ... please pardon me for the way I have presented this... as if I were the “All-Knowing.” I’m not, but I have implicit trust in my sources.


During our sojourn on the physical plane, we’re not guaranteed that the body we’re attached to will enable us to become what our soul is destined to become. The physical body is a temporary earthly home for the soul/personality.

A healthy body/brain can facilitate the development of the soul by enabling it to easily fulfill its mission. I guess that’s why the Bible calls the body the temple.

However, it can work the other way around if that healthy body/brain becomes distracted by work, play, possessions, or the vicissitudes of life. Sometimes that physical body hinders the soul’s mission of developing a worthy “personality.”

On the other hand ... sometimes sickness or disabilities can lead to the development of the soul’s “personality.” Great obstacles present the chance for great spiritual growth.

Some physical obstacles are so great that the body is of no use to the soul... such as those brain injuries you mention in your post. In those cases, the soul is fine. It’s healthy and beautiful. It just “waits” (time is a human construct) until it is freed from that body. Then it goes on about its mission in the afterlife. The soul continues to develop in the afterlife until its “personality” is perfection.

Sometimes those bodies that are of no use to the soul’s development are a chance for great “personality” (or spiritual) development in their caregivers and others.

Canuck: If the person dies as a result of their esteem issues, do they enter the great beyond as people with issues?

Yes, they do, but they have eternity to work it out. Souls continue to progress in the afterlife.

canuck: What is actually happening to such a person, who spends their days like a carrot in bed? Are these people really alive, or has the “soul” already departed and left behind an empty shell?

The soul is still with the body. It is active in the realm of the afterlife. I hope you’ll excuse me for linking to an article that I wrote several years ago, but you might find it interesting. http://netarticles.n...e...&article=61

canuck: When the dementia afflicted person dies, do they go off into the great beyond with dementia? Or do they go off as they were before they were afflicted?

They enter the afterlife as they were before they became afflicted.

canuck: And what about children? If they die at age 10, do they remain at 10 forever? Or do they continue to develop into adults?

They continue to develop until their “personality”/soul is perfect.

canuck: ... consciousness is an independent item, and if the brain is an active data storage and translation device, then it follows that afflictions like Alzheimer’s could corrupt both the data storage and the feed to consciousness.

Consciousness and memory are functions of the soul. Mental illness and disease processes like Alzheimer’s do not affect it.

canuck: ... personalities range from Mother Teresa to sociopathic serial killers, what happens when all these people die and their personalities are released into “the great beyond”?

Only our good qualities are released into the afterlife with us. The evil we’ve done is revealed during the life review, and the individual suffers the consequences of that evil in some way... through extreme remorse until we’ve “atoned” for the evil perhaps. I don’t know how this works, but we're assured that justice is done in all cases.

I've seen a lot of good, thought-provoking responses, but I've only responded to canuck's posts.

Lovingly, robinrenee
The pale girl watched him cautiously when she asked, “Can aborted babies come back as ghosts?” Solomon smiled as he answered, “Yes, magnificent ones!”From a heartwarming ghost story, Solomon the Midwife: Appalachian Afterlifehttp://solomon-the-m...fe.blogspot.com

#19 canuck

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 07:57 PM

Hi Robinrenee; and thank you for your response.

Please recognise that my comments below are not meant to be an attack on your beliefs, which I accept were sincerely given and were read by me in the same spirit. My comments below are meant to further our mutual exploration and attempts at gaining greater clarity and understanding of the issues.

It seems to me that there are some logical inconsistences in your response.

From previous discussions and empirical observations we have established that the physical state of the brain can influence the development of “the soul”; similarly, we know from PET scans and bio-neurology that “the soul” can influence the development of the brain.

Within the context of both philosophical and theological discussions it has been stated that during its time “on earth” the soul is exposed to life experiences, and it uses these experiences to learn and develop. This development in response to experience is what constitutes “personality”, and this personality is what differentiates one person from another.

However, to paraphrase what you have said: post mortem, you say the soul eventually transforms into “perfection”. In other words, it sheds the learning gained from experience, and reverts to some predetermined destiny, as defined by some standard template. The “personality” developed by the soul during its “lifetime” is discarded.

The implication of your explanation is that “the great beyond” is little more than a bland, Pablum like existence, populated with homogeneous clones.

I find the concept of discarding the results of lifetime experience to be inconsistent with observed human development, and on a philosophical level, seems to me to be illogical.

If it is true that we all revert to a standard template, what is the point of the learning experience on earth? If it is all to be discarded post mortem, why bother?




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