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#16 Morraeon

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 05:21 PM

:: Grins, blushes:: Hee, I'm glad to be here: I've been a bit of a lurker since I first found the site back in October after attending a talk which Jeff Belanger gave at the library in my hometown.

#17 mellilotflower

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 05:49 PM

I'm looking for ways to blend elements of Witchcraft/Wicca/something from Ye Olde Ways into my faith practices. I was raised Catholic and while I love Christ and the rituals of the Church, I am getting fed up with the bureaucracy and cliqueishness that is haunting the Church right now, so I'd like to find something to revitalize my faith on my own terms.


From what I understand it is perfectly legitimate within a catholic faith to accept the existence of the powers involved in witchcraft etc. However, to knowingly and willfully take part in such practices tends to be frowned upon.
If you continue to love Jesus, and the rituals you observe, then why not look into the vast amounts of theology within catholicism? Study the philosophy behind the trinity, look into the ins and outs of mariology, read Plato and Aristotle ... there's a lot you can do to reinvigorate your faith that doesn't involve going against it...

That said, I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not wish to offend anyone, I am not religious ... I just like consistancy. You can personally study the faith that you love if you've grown bored with the system - but remember the system is always there to help... in theory.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#18 Morraeon

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 11:05 AM

I've been through twelve years of Catholic school and studied theology during one year of Catholic college. My problem isn't the teachings, my problem is the social climate in the Church. To put it another way, my problem isn't with God, my problem is with His fanclub. I'm tired of dealing with priests who are more concerned about revenues and Mass attendance than the people those revenues are coming from, and I'm sick of dealing with Catholics who are less than accepting toward some of the things which make me who I am (single and not interested in getting married and having a pewful of kids, as well as being bisexual).

The one religious group which has been accepting of this, or should I say, the friends and acquaintances who accept who I am as I am, happen to be Wiccan, and I can't help but be attracted to a religion which allows this. I don't feel comfortable with breaking away and worshiping different gods or goddesses (and I get a bit annoyed with the kinds of Wiccans who seem like they're always talking about "the Goddess/the Lady" and seem to mention the God/the Lord almost as an afterthought), so perhaps worshiping God as I know Him through a different medium would be the way to go. I don't know, I'm just testing the waters.

G.K. Chesterton once said, "There are two ways to go home. One is never to leave it, and the other is to walk all the way around the world until you return to it.". I think I need to take that walk around the world, since home right now doesn't really feel like a hospitable place.

#19 mellilotflower

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 05:23 AM

Love the quote- I'm personally all for staying at home and finding out what's in the Attic! :Spaz:

I'm just a little concerned that if you're happy with God, what you're doing is looking for a better community. Community is a very important aspect of life - I'd say it's important enough, but I don't have faith.

Don't you see yon narrow, narrow road,
So thick beset with thorns and briars?
That is the road to righteousness,
Though after it but few enquire."

"Don't you see yon broad, broad road,
Lying lies across the lily leaven?
That is the road to wickedness,
Though some call it the road to heaven."

"Don't you see yon bonnie, bonnie road,
Lying across the ferny brae?
That is the road to fair Elfland,

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#20 PHANTOM MONK

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 12:20 PM

The two seem to be at odds to me, having tried both and found both lacking is various aspects.

Nice to be back. Wonder who I made "ill" with me back in 2009...at 67 am lucky to recall what I had for dinner 2 days ago. Guess some folks will have to explain it to me as I have no clue.


#21 CaveRat2

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:57 AM

The two are incompatable. Wicca believes in multiple gods and godesses; Christianity believes in One God, represented by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. On that there is no compromise possible, the scripture is very plain.

Now regarding the church doctines that is open to discussion. I am not Catholic, don't ascribe to all the ritual and order they do, The pope is a mere human, a humanly elected leader of their order. Mary was the mother of Christ, also human. The saints and church officials are all human. And all share one human trait, all are sinners and except for their belief in Christ are condemned to hell. And that is the factor which assures that Christian salvation. If one doesn't like the Catholic doctrine, there are others to choose from.

Pont is the core Christian belief in Christ is what saves us, not saying a chant, bowing down , or whether we sprinkkle, dunk, or immerse for baptism. Thus there will be Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterian, Methodists, and a host of other believers saved. If one of these denominations doesn't suit your style of worship, fine, choose another. Christ said, "Believe in Me and you will be saved." He didn't say a thing about which church you should join. But He was very clear which God you should believe in.

#22 MoonChild

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:30 AM

But He was very clear which God you should believe in.



He sure was, but are we?
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#23 Laurie Ann

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 01:33 PM

~I used to be sure....not now though. Too many unanswered questions that get tapped dance around everytime I ask. Whatever.

I do know one thing though...the trees are real, the grass is real, the wind, sun, & rain are all real. They live, breath & die like we do. We are in charge of our own destinys, by the choices we make....and we all have choices, every single minute of the day we have choices.

I'm going to look deeper into Wiccan as I have questions, wondering where is it that I should really be. Where I'm at right now, I don't care for too much. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
~Women are angels...and when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We're flexible like that.~

#24 redqueen

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 03:09 PM

This is fascinating. I've only joined recently, and I took a glance at this forum but haven't really explore it yet. This past weekend I was discussing spirituality with a friend and so today I thought I'd look around a little bit, believe it or not with this very topic in mind! I looked at different religions years ago, and liked paganism and buddhism the most, but I was raised Catholic. Before I entered this forum this afternoon, I was wondering to myself if there was a way to combine the parts of Christianity that I liked with the parts of paganism that I like... and lo and behold, there's a topic discussing just that. What a coincidence!

I'm not sure I need a label for what I feel/believe though anyway, really... as others have said already, a personal relationship with the divine is just that - personal.

#25 Morraeon

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:12 PM

All the Wiccan Christian sites I have looked at (and I believe there is a book as well, which is available on Amazon.com) seem to approach Christianity with a more earth-based approach, rather than the more Platonic approach that seems to dominate Christianity (ie. putting more emphasis on looking forward to the afterlife, rather than celebrating nature and the human body). I'm at the point where I would rather worship God as Lord of Creation than the Lord of the afterlife, since I'm not exactly there just yet. It just doesn't make sense to me to put so much emphasis on the hereafter when the here is right in front of us.

I think what attracts people to nature-based religion is the fact that we've gotten out of touch with nature and we're now paying the price. Ecology and environmentalism from a Christian approach is a bit of a johnny-come-lately and it's more than a little galling to see people more worried about the human species than about so many other species that God entrusted to our care and which we've horribly squandered. A Wiccan friend of mine has described spell-casting as "prayers with props", and while the Sacraments in the rite of the Church are pretty close to that, I'd like to be able to do a little "praying with props" on my own.

#26 venusmoon32

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 10:46 AM

Very interesting.... I have often wondered about this subject myself.... I grew up in a Babitist Christian family yet felt there was more to the whole thing... I looked into Wicca and other older religions until I decided to just go on my own. I believe in a Unknown,allknowing,conscious,Supreme Being..yet believe in the rulers of the 4 winds and elements of this planet... I have been able to see the dead before they r dead since I was 5.. and have a pretty good since of intution.. not to mention sometimes i must watch what i say in certain emotional situations because they seem to come true.

Any way I thought this was interesting and worth checking out... Thanks :)
If Angels had Wings and Devils had Horns then We must of been born with the Thorns.. Tweezers anyone??,Someone?!..

#27 PHANTOM MONK

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 10:06 PM

I hate to be difficult but I can't see the two religions, which I question Wicca as a true religion, regardless court decisions, living side by side and members of each going back and forth. Sounds an instant damnation situation, from the Christain point of view, much less loving and accepting than thhe Wiccans toward Christains. Decide on one religion and stick with it untio it no longer meets your neds, then get out. Something about serving two Master's comes to mind. :ghost:

Nice to be back. Wonder who I made "ill" with me back in 2009...at 67 am lucky to recall what I had for dinner 2 days ago. Guess some folks will have to explain it to me as I have no clue.


#28 Morraeon

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 12:17 AM

I often see God as being a lot more forgiving and understanding than the Church is; remember the description of the Last Judgment: God isn't giving people a theology pop quiz, He's asking people if they were kind and charitable to their fellow man. I see more parallels between the Wiccan Rede and the Golden Rule than most Christians would care to admit.

So yeah, what about those verses in the Bible about not suffering a witch to live? Turns out it's a fudged translation dating to around the 1500s, when witch hunts were starting to become the order of the day. I can't remember the exact word, but the term in the Septuagint translates roughly to "poisoner" or something on the lines of someone who uses black magick.

As I have said before, I am looking for a more earth-based and hands-on approach to Christianity, not just a matter of going to Church and confession and feeling like the priests have no idea what I'm really dealing with, no matter how I try and explain myself and my situation, or dealing with a cultural climate which seems to put marriage and raising that pewful of kids on a pedestal and losing sight of the fact that some people are just not wired for it. There's something in me that is calling me to a more earth-based faith, but at the same time I don't want to turn my back completely on God.

I don't see it as serving two Masters, but serving the same Master in a different way. I personally think some of the gods and goddesses of mythology may actually exist as some kind of entities, but would I actually worship them? The simple answer is no, but a more complicated answer is no more than I worship St. Anthony or St. Michael or St. Mary Magdalen now. I have a little statuette of Anubis, the Egyptian god of the dead, in his jackal form, which I have standing at the foot of a statue of the Virgin Mary holding the Christ Child. The way it's set up, it almost looks like he's the family dog keeping watch over his Master. C.S. Lewis wrote about Venus, the goddess of love, manifesting in visible form in his odd apocalyptic novel "That Hideous Strength", though she appears more as an archetype/personification of love than a goddess demanding worship. There is even a really strange Eastern Orthodox legend about one of the Apostles (Bartholomew, I think) ascending Mount Olympus and preaching the gospel to the gods and goddesses.

#29 redqueen

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 12:17 PM

I hate to be difficult but I can't see the two religions, which I question Wicca as a true religion, regardless court decisions, living side by side and members of each going back and forth. Sounds an instant damnation situation, from the Christain point of view, much less loving and accepting than thhe Wiccans toward Christains. Decide on one religion and stick with it untio it no longer meets your neds, then get out. Something about serving two Master's comes to mind. :Spaz:


I'm not interested in religions or dogma as much as outlets for spirituality.

It seems to me that your perceptions of this idea are formed based on dogma, and not all spiritual people subscribe to religious dogma of whatever brand.

#30 PHANTOM MONK

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 01:54 PM

I hate to be difficult but I can't see the two religions, which I question Wicca as a true religion, regardless court decisions, living side by side and members of each going back and forth. Sounds an instant damnation situation, from the Christain point of view, much less loving and accepting than thhe Wiccans toward Christains. Decide on one religion and stick with it untio it no longer meets your neds, then get out. Something about serving two Master's comes to mind. :Spaz:


I'm not interested in religions or dogma as much as outlets for spirituality.

It seems to me that your perceptions of this idea are formed based on dogma, and not all spiritual people subscribe to religious dogma of whatever brand.

Is spirituality possible without dogmas and religions to give it some meaning? I'll talk it out with a Cardinal friend of mine next time he comes back from Rome.

Nice to be back. Wonder who I made "ill" with me back in 2009...at 67 am lucky to recall what I had for dinner 2 days ago. Guess some folks will have to explain it to me as I have no clue.





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