46 replies to this topic

[singingcedar]

You can't take the bible completely literally since it has been shaped to fit the purpose of the ones who shaped it. When I have chosen biblical enlightenment there are transcribed scroll fragments on line that I refer to.
I have experienced "evil" regardless of what one might call it. My daughter was 4. Her spirit called to my spirit while we were sleeping. While my body slept my spirit woke and I saw through a common wall an "entity" hovering over her.
I commanded it to leave her and in an instant it was "standing" beside me. I reached out to "push" it away and it felt hot and cold at the same time. I had to NOT show fear and have faith that all that is good would make it go.
The next morning she woke me up and said "you made the spirit go mommy" I said, "yes, I did"
Where there is good-there is evil regardless of what it is called.

[Axman]

Oiche, on Sep 9 2009, 11:04 AM, said:

Aloha, Greg! First of all I don't believe in demons, I admit that there are evils out there that never walked on earthly feet my issue is the semantics, I don't like the word demon or devil

Now the term demon/devil came to us from Judaism and due to a long history of captivity and slavery, you can see a certain similarity between the persecutors' pantheons (Babylonian, Sumerian and Egyptian) and the infernal heirarchy, Astaroth became Asmodeus, Ba'al became Baalzebul

Note that there are two separate Babalonian gods with similar names. One is Beelzebub, the other is Beelzebul. Beelzebub means "lord of the flies", Beelzebul means "lord of the dung". Pretty names huh?

Edited by Axman, 18 September 2009 - 06:03 PM.

[greg_dragonlvr]

We are getting a bit far afield gents. The evolution of names and the development of defeated ppl's gods into devils is a cool topic. But the question is still out there as to why ppl in general jump to the worse case scenario involving a critter who's existance is dubius at best.

[Laurie Ann]

*just my 2 cents*

Maybe people have the idea banged into their head since the day they are born to blame good happenings on one being (God/Jesus) and blame bad happenings on the other being (satan...or whatever the hell people call it). It's just easier for people to sleep at night if they have something to blame everything on. That's just the way I'm seeing it.

...just my own honest opinion here folks, so don't get in an uproar. But with everything thats been going on in the past few days, I highly doubt there's really anyone or thing to blame good and bad on. Everything that happens is because of what is within US...not because of a higher or lower power. Earthquakes, floods, etc...is beyond our control. But everything else well, it is what it is.

[Caniswalensis]

greg_dragonlvr, on Sep 23 2009, 07:34 AM, said:

We are getting a bit far afield gents. The evolution of names and the development of defeated ppl's gods into devils is a cool topic. But the question is still out there as to why ppl in general jump to the worse case scenario involving a critter who's existance is dubius at best.

Hi Greg,

Interesting topic. I think that there is probably a variety of factors that influence people to believe in demons, and that they are under demon attack.

One example might be front-loading by the popular culture. Someone sees a movie about a demon, and then a ghosthunting reality show on TV that tells them these things really exist. Then they have an experience of their own and make a connection where there is no causality. It seems plausible to them though, because of what they have been seeing in our culture. That's a simplified description of the process, of course.

In my estimate, the single biggest factor would be that many people tend to go from their fears. How many times have we seen others,or even ourselves worry over finance, health issues or whatever, and assume the worst case scenario is true? I think it is a fairly natural human impulse, and goes a long way towards explaining why hauntings start out small and then begin to escalate.

Regards, Canis

[greg_dragonlvr]

My apologies Miss Laurie Ann, didn't mean to exclude the fairer gender. And I promise not to get my bloomers in a knot. I enjoy different viewpoints. As this is all conjecture, there are no right answers.

As far as front loading, it has always been popular to blame a supernatural entity. Flip Wilson made it famous: "the devil made me do it". To me, the worse case scenario would be being infested by PITA fanatics.

This tendency, abetted by the idiots who capitalize on this fear with thier 'holy' symbols and religious babble that is the issue. The probability of education for the population in general about the rarity of demonic influence is as likely as digging up Pat Pulson and getting him elected President. (Well in light of this last election, is not so far fetched.)

I still do not dispute that there are nasty critters about. As Leslie pointed out, Charlie Manson would make a hell of a mess should he stick around after passing. With him and ppl like him in mind, nothing demonic is required.

[Axman]

I think the image of Lucifer and his minions, and hell in general, has evolved from Dante's "Inferno". That's the image that someone came up with and now it is etched in our minds.

Here's a link for those who don't know what I'm referring to.
http://www.danteinferno.info/

Edited by Axman, 23 September 2009 - 05:46 PM.

[dancinmiriam]

Axman, on Sep 23 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

I think the image of Lucifer and his minions, and hell in general, has evolved from Dante's "Inferno". That's the image that someone came up with and now it is etched in our minds.

Here's a link for those who don't know what I'm referring to.
http://www.danteinferno.info/

Thank you Axman for that link! Having grown up in a family of clergy and uber-intellectuals I was painfully aware of the many lurid tales in Dante's Inferno. and have pretty much assumed what you have, that this has fed the minds of millions in regard to the 'demonic'. I must say it was a hoot to follow the links from there for more Inferno-related clips - the 1911 Italian film was priceless.

[Caniswalensis]

greg_dragonlvr, on Sep 23 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

This tendency, abetted by the idiots who capitalize on this fear with thier 'holy' symbols and religious babble that is the issue.

I can't agree with this. Human nature is the issue, I think. Whatever opinion we have about the motives behind various world religions, they could not exploit or control people if human nature did not cause people to react from a place of fear.

Also, I do not in any way regard people who follow a religion as idiots. As an athiest & skeptic, I might not subscribe to their beliefs, but I do not think that their faith makes them an unintelligent person, anymore than I believe that someone who believes in ghosts or reincarnation or something like that is an unintelligent person.

That's just my take on it.

Canis

[greg_dragonlvr]

Caniswalensis, on Sep 23 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

Also, I do not in any way regard people who follow a religion as idiots. As an athiest & skeptic, I might not subscribe to their beliefs, but I do not think that their faith makes them an unintelligent person, anymore than I believe that someone who believes in ghosts or reincarnation or something like that is an unintelligent person.

That's just my take on it.

Canis

Ahhh, I did not say that ppl who follow a religion are idiots. I said that ppl who use the trappings and words associated with religion for whatever gain they might get from exploiting this fear are idiots.

[freyjasdottir]

Just a friendly reminder to keep snarkiness down, we can all debate in a friendly manner.

[leslie_dragonlvr]

Hummmm, I didn't see that as "snarkie"....it seems to be a friendly debate to me. JMO.

Les

[Caniswalensis]

leslie_dragonlvr, on Sep 23 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Hummmm, I didn't see that as "snarkie"....it seems to be a friendly debate to me. JMO.

Les

I agree. I did not really take Greg's statement as being snarkie, and I hope that is mutual. I put out my comment, he clarified his position and all is good as far as I am concerned.

Canis

[greg_dragonlvr]

freyjasdottir, on Sep 23 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

Just a friendly reminder to keep snarkiness down, we can all debate in a friendly manner.

If you would be kind enough to show me exactly which part of that would be construed as "snarky", would be pleased as punch to avoid such snarkiness in all future posts.

Edited by greg_dragonlvr, 23 September 2009 - 11:47 PM.

[Caniswalensis]

I would like to say for the record that I am against snarkiness, and if I said anything that was snarky, I apologize to the other members and the staff here.

I am definitely pro-moderator and I do not want to make their already tough job more dificult.

Sincerely, Canis