46 replies to this topic

[freyjasdottir]

I was not casting blame anywhere but some villagers may take offense at what could be viewed as calling religious people idiots. Yes, I realize it was friendly debate, yes I realize it was not meant in those terms but this is the Internet and tone is very hard to convey in a written media.

Please carry on.

[greg_dragonlvr]

freyjasdottir, on Sep 24 2009, 08:45 PM, said:

I was not casting blame anywhere but some villagers may take offense at what could be viewed as calling religious people idiots. Yes, I realize it was friendly debate, yes I realize it was not meant in those terms but this is the Internet and tone is very hard to convey in a written media.

Please carry on.

Got your point, no problem. Think everyone would agree that ppl that profit from ppls fear are not the sort you would care to have in your lifeboat.

[Caniswalensis]

greg_dragonlvr, on Sep 24 2009, 10:12 PM, said:

freyjasdottir, on Sep 24 2009, 08:45 PM, said:

I was not casting blame anywhere but some villagers may take offense at what could be viewed as calling religious people idiots. Yes, I realize it was friendly debate, yes I realize it was not meant in those terms but this is the Internet and tone is very hard to convey in a written media.

Please carry on.

Got your point, no problem. Think everyone would agree that ppl that profit from ppls fear are not the sort you would care to have in your lifeboat.

I respectfully disagree.

You need someone in your lifeboat that no one will object to eating when the provisions run out.

Canis

[leslie_dragonlvr]

Oh sooooooooooooo true Canis!

What we wanted to talk about was the fact that so many people go automatically to something unexplainable and call it a demon or its the devil etc.

How so much is explainable and the fact that we need to stop jumping to those types of conclusions as a first response to things unexplainable in our lives.

Its just odd that society still after all these years does that. Has a demon ever really been captured on film....I think not. Only odd things that are explainable, but people refuse to see that. Protocol for hauntings would be nice to have set in place, before ever calling something a demon etc. Full examinations need to be taken, not someone's word from perhaps a personel experience of some sort that they know what they are talking about. Most don't. I see this type of thing all the time, even on the TV shows out there.
Its just a bit much for me. JMO.

Les

[SeekX]

greg_dragonlvr, on Aug 31 2009, 08:25 AM, said:

Did a quick perusal of the forums here and found over 10 pages of topics that contain something about demons, the earliest from Pearl Harbor Day in 2003.

Took a look at 3 or 4 concordances, the many versions of bibles, and my catechism books that I have stashed around here and cannot find the term demon used in any of the original versions of Old or New Testaments. There are tempters that hang out with God and place bets with him. There is a serpent, who has no other title, and some unclean spirits that the Christ deals with. There are also some references to dieties worshiped by the Isrealite's enemies and some very vague items that could be anything from wild animals to infectious diseases. Nope, no demons.

So, what do ppl here know that the authors of the Bible didn't? This is not to say that christian religions do not have their demonic lore and myth. Local pagan gods got sucked up by early christians to become evil. And the early church fathers as well as Jewish scholars started in the second century AD to absorb the Babylonian and Assyrian demonic pantheon whole sale.

So aside from some religous plagerism, some mislabeled pagan gods and a tempter or two, who are all these guys and where the Hell are they coming from? How do you tell a demon from a psychotic episode, a sociopathic spook or a self induced case of hysteria?

Are there malicious spirits about? Certainly, just as there are malicious ppl still with us. It is a great big universe and there could be some 'negative' entities that drift by from time to time. But until I see some valid ID from one of these critters, they will remain myth and imagination along with their angelic cousins.

Waiting to be educated....

Greg

I think it might be somewhat of a moot point that they are not called or named demon , I mean a rose by any other name is still a rose.

They were many times referred to as devils so that is pretty much the same idea since there is only one actual devil by the way believers in a modern world think of a devil - as being Satan.


28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.




A note here I really should not be talking about my religion relative to parapsychology but it is hard not to do so when aspects of it are the topic.



SeekX

[CrystalEyz]

Hi All, Dont get a chance to post here often so nice to be here. (Hi MrsSpookypants). Anyway, seems everyone wants proof of any kind of entity. The problem is, I learned first hand that witnessed accounts, photos, and EVP's are not enough for the majority of people to "believe" in Demons. Its funny that so many believe in cute little miraculous angels, but no bad guys are allowed. These entities are real and out there, and I say that with first hand knowledge. I never was taught to fear demons, or be good "or else" nor have I read the Bible. I used to think it was a Hollywood scare tactic and nothing more. However years ago I found out differently. Going through a Demonic haunting then an attachment, I was shocked at their abilities. Some of it consists of poltergeist activity, that escalates to a whole new level. Some of you know of my ordeal and I am not here to defend myself but more to educate, and give my opinion. These are similar to a human haunting in the beginning, and I found it fun and interesting, as I am no stranger to the paranormal. These entities are unlike any other. They are highly intelligent, they know all about us, what we love, our fears, and secrets, and find a way to use that against us and we are not really aware that something we cannot see, is causing horrid nightmares, portraying illusions to not only scare us, but to make us feel we are losing our minds. Its as if you see something and think "I DIDNT just see that." Our minds cannot truly accept these things, because they are totally surreal. These entities cause sleep deprivation, as I said illusions, and we heard scratching, bangs, footsteps and a few times it sounded like my house exploded or the roof collapsed. The one thing that I will never forget is what I call "the voice." Day and night I would hear a disembodied, deep, horrifying male type voice. This voice would come from one room, then another, it was everywhere. It would laugh, and twice growled. I would literally shake and sit still because I couldnt believe something that sinister was in my house and my life. Mine was very violent, and I wont go into details, Ive already told it too many times. To me, it had nothing to do with religion or the Bible but all I knew then, was it was out to either drive me insane, or I would die from fear alone. I understand that those who either dont believe or have never been through it think maybe I was crazy, or it manifested within me, but neither of those are true. It got in somehow, and I have a few theories, and banishing it, was even harder. I cant prove this to you only share and let others know what these things do, and these are NOT rare, its just alot of people never talk about it after the fact. Why they attach to certain people and not others is unknown, but usually its a number of possibilites. Its a very personal and invasive ordeal, but I chose to share it, in order to help someone out there under attack. Thanks for reading this..

[greg_dragonlvr]

The issue of semantics has been covered but if one wants to pull up bad translations from the originals, be my guest. Depending on the version and bias of the translator, one can find the word devil or demon on every page.

The original post acknowledged the existance of malicious or negative beings, the objection was to ill-informed or less than scrupulous individuals preying on ppls ignorance or fear for the purpose of some kind of gain.

Greg

Edited by greg_dragonlvr, 29 October 2009 - 08:37 PM.

[CrystalEyz]

greg_dragonlvr, on Oct 29 2009, 09:36 PM, said:

The issue of semantics has been covered but if one wants to pull up bad translations from the originals, be my guest. Depending on the version and bias of the translator, one can find the word devil or demon on every page.

The original post acknowledged the existance of malicious or negative beings, the objection was to ill-informed or less than scrupulous individuals preying on ppls ignorance or fear for the purpose of some kind of gain.

Greg

So who are these ill informed individuals? It would help if you gave me some names. I dont see any clergy gaining anything by casting out a Diabolical, or even a Demonologist, they dont charge. So what is your point?

[greg_dragonlvr]

Any perusal of morning TV will have any number of 'ministers' and 'preachers' making a good living selling hankies and casting out a daily quota of devils and demons. And if Paranormal State is any indication, there are a good number of organizations embracing the demon infestation.

[MoonChild]

CrystalEyz, on Oct 30 2009, 08:16 AM, said:

So who are these ill informed individuals? It would help if you gave me some names. I dont see any clergy gaining anything by casting out a Diabolical, or even a Demonologist, they dont charge. So what is your point?

If they dont charge, they stand to gain otherwise. That is a tricky part.

[Daveofspades]

Greg- don't go to English Translations, go back to the early Greek Manuscripts.. you'll see the term for demon used quite frequently in the NT.

To the psychic medium.. how do you know you've never encountered a demon. Odds are that you just "think" you haven't.

Crystaleyz - your case sounds fairly standard

There are bad preachers out there that make money.. odds are they are not seminary trained and ordained pastors, but self proclaimed. I've had to clean up the messes made by such individuals before.

Ya'll should look over what Caverat has said.. he has hit the nail on the head. You aren't going to know one is present unless they want you to know. And by then, you're in for some trouble.

As for Paranormal State, unfortunately Ryan is under a great deal of influence from the teachings of the Warrens, who to be honest.. are kooks and a half. Most of their demonology and beliefs are very contrary to the teachings of the Church considering Mr. Warren was supposedly trained by the RCC.

This is a topic that deserves to be discussed, but just like any topic in the paranormal, it will never be solved with certainty.. just beliefs and experiences.

[Axman]

Daveofspades, on Nov 7 2009, 08:25 AM, said:

As for Paranormal State, unfortunately Ryan is under a great deal of influence from the teachings of the Warrens, who to be honest.. are kooks and a half. Most of their demonology and beliefs are very contrary to the teachings of the Church considering Mr. Warren was supposedly trained by the RCC.

I'm glad you mentioned this. Lorraine Warren thinks everything is a demon. Before Ed Warren passed away he mirrored her views.

[Daveofspades]

Well I just call her a kook because Ed was supposedly a RCC trained demonologist and she followed along with him, but their views fall in many ways far outside of what the RCC teaches. I'm just saying.. don't claim yourself to be something when you obviously are not. She believes everything is a demon because in some odd way she believes she is a demonologist. She just rides the gravy train her husband created, she has no formal education in the realm of theology and demonolgy and now she is giving advice to individuals because she has a last name that is well known.

I see nothing wrong with believing only demons are out there, that is a religious view that cannot be disproven. One could work the field for 30 years and never come across one knowingly and assume there is no such thing. When it is entirely possible all those spirits named ted and greg were in fact demons posing as the dead. How would we know either way?

[Axman]

I personally don't doubt that demons might be about. I just wonder what they have to gain by posing as a human spirit. The only thing I can think of is to hide from something or maybe to gain trust. If trust is what they seek, it seems pointless if they are only encountering a person maybe for one night.

[Daveofspades]

I'm sure they get some sick satisfaction from it.. i think it is a deception thing. Kinda like a magician, they make you look at one thing while they are secretly doing something else.