14 replies to this topic

[BringOnTheGhosts]

Does anyone know where I could possibly find a K2 meter?

Edited by Joven76, 15 November 2009 - 09:30 PM.

[Grim Undertakings]

K2 meters are notoriously unreliable so I wouldn't waste my money on one of those. If you're going to use an EMF meter I'd recommend the TriField EMF meter. Mine was $300. I ordered it online but you may be able to find a better price on one out there. I couldn't find a better price at the time.

[BringOnTheGhosts]

Okay thanks everyone! So not a good idea with the K2's? Their one of my favorite pieces of equipment, atleast from watching Ghost Hunters anyway

[Grim Undertakings]

That's another reason why you shouldn't use them.

[CaveRat2]

Not picking on any particular show, but TV ghosthunters have in some ways been a detriment to the field in that due to production requirements they have given a poor example of doing research. A lot is because the TV audience expects to see action and frankly when doing an investigation there is usually very litttle. Thus bells and whistles are used a long with a lot of dramatics.

Consider the meters, most serious researchers who use meters use a trifield meter. A simple meter on a box with a control. When fields are detected the meter moves..... BORING!. much better to have beeps and flashing lights, the audience can see that! But when it comes to equipment it turns out the meter is more stable and more reliable at providing a detailed reading. But we see which way TV takes it.

[afterlife]

I agree about the K2, I own one and it is quite prone to RF interference. Not that reliable, go with the tri-field.

[bbabin5]

Look the K II meter is still a valuble tool in any ghost hunter kit. Not everybody who wants to hunt ghost has to spend 300 on a trifield. I know of plenty reputable groups that use KII. Any tool KII or not needs validation by other tools. Ghosthunting is not just for rich people. If thats what your budget can handle thats fine just don't quit or give up because of money.

[space ghost]

Look the K II meter is still a valuble tool in any ghost hunter kit. Not everybody who wants to hunt ghost has to spend 300 on a trifield. I know of plenty reputable groups that use KII. Any tool KII or not needs validation by other tools. Ghosthunting is not just for rich people. If thats what your budget can handle thats fine just don't quit or give up because of money.

I can agree with you. If you look back at some of the pioneers of paranormal investigating such as Hanz Holtzer, you're looking at researchers who were using very limited equipment and were still able to get very compelling results.

[CaveRat2]

And Galileo's first telescope consisted of two lenses and a hollow tube. If we stopped there we might still know that Jupiter has four moons, and the outer planets would never have been discovered.

Point is that yes the KII does pick up EMF fields as well as a lot of false positives. It also misses some fields it should respond to. So if dependability and being able to trust what you receive is not required then fine, use a KII. In fact you can even get a couple cheaper meters than that. But like it or not, cost is a factor. If you simply want to blink lights and hear beeps, fine, anything will do. But if you want results you can depend on then you have to use equipment able to provide those results.

If you want reliable results you have to advance with technology and take advantage of what we learn. Just like the first telescope worked, there was a lot of room for improvements which followed. Yes they cost money. EMF meters are no different, either you are serious or you are not. It's your call.

[BringOnTheGhosts]

So when you ask a spirit to communicate with the K2 and they lights start flickering after you ask questions, its just a coincidence?

[CaveRat2]

Yep.

The lights tend to flicker at times on a KII whether you ask a question or not. So how would one know if it was a spirit or just a fluke condition?

Now if one were to
(1) Lay a meter down, turn it on and leave it. Wait a couple hours with no activity at all. No activations, false or otherwise.
(2) After that time, still not touching the meter, ask a spirit to show itself.
(3) Within a matter of seconds get an activation.
(4) Repeat this two or three times in a row, without any false activations, Then you'll have something worth looking into. At least you would have a convincing argument that something was answering your questions.

But as long as you carry around a meter known to give false positives when it is disturbed, you have a hard time convincing anyone it isn't a false positive.

[space ghost]

Just wanted to ask what you mean by false positives. Do you mean the device is picking up energy that are not EMFs?

[CaveRat2]

Excatly! A false positive is any evidence which appears to be something but is in reality caused by some mundane source. A meter may pick up something not an EM Field and respond as if it were. The KII is ntorious for having a faulty switch. Later versions wee even modified because it was responsible for so many false activations. It would cause the device to reset itself which made the lights flash. People thought it was an activation, in reality it was the meter itself causing it.

That is also why digital voice recorders are not good for EVPs. True, you can capture them on these recorders, but they also create a lot of anomalies that sound like an EVP. Thus you can't tell the real from the false. The reason why these recorders aren't recommended is that you can't be sure what you get on them. It also explains why the cheaper the voice recorder the more EVPs people get. The cheaper the recorder, the more likely they are to create false positives because the quality needed to insure reliable operation is simply not there.

[OMPRDave]

A few of the false positives I was able to note while observing a researcher using a KII on an investigation last year:

Remote thermometer sensor - sent signals to the base station every 30-45 seconds, picked up to at least 10 feet away.

Cellular phone - sent signals at random times at the same distance.

Hand-held Motorola radios - when keyed, picked up to at least 15 feet away and through a wall.

Now, if you consider that many teams use wireless cameras as well, there can be any variety of wireless items sending signals at any point during an investigation. That is what was so appealing to tv show ghost hunters as it gave them a prop to work off of. It's lights flashed, there wasn't an annoying buzz to override the acto...errrr, ghost hunter's voice, and it was CHEAP. They had the best marketing system in place and the best customer base already in place with their fans who were clamoring to get out and try it for themselves.

I was a member in training of a local group here and learned first hand just how bad the KII was two years before Chris Fleming got his on tv with TAPS. The unit that team had at the time cost them $29.99 I believe, and was extremely inaccurate and unreliable then.

It's 100% important, especially if a team is going to be giving their honest opinion of a location's status to the owner, that they fully understand the equipment before using it as a tool to "find ghosts". It's even more important to realize it's fairly incredulous to tell somebody they have a haunted house based on the readings of a meter that was initially designed to tell if your alarm clock is too close to your head (this is the KII official site...check it out for yourselves). Where this unit cannot even tell you what type of field it is reading it is impossible for anyone to say it is communicating with spirits. But it is flashy and recognizable, so if looking like you know what you are doing is more important than actually knowing, by all means pay the $59.99.

Edited by OMPRDave, 15 November 2009 - 11:05 AM.

[boatlesspirate]

Bottom line-if you accept the inherent flaws of using the KII for paranormal research (false positives, bad switch, etc.) then go ahead and use it. To paraphrase CaveRat, if you get repeated response in a controlled environment, you MAY have something to look into. Bear in mind that the skeptic will never accept that evidence, again due to the nature of the KII. If you’re OK with that, and got $40 bucks to spend, go for it! By the way, you can find them at Ghost-mart.com right on this site. Good Luck!