Jump to content


Click Here To Visit Our Sponsor


Photo
- - - - -

New Audio recorder


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 DeadTrish

DeadTrish

    Village Elder

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hamilton/Philadelphia

Posted 15 March 2010 - 10:27 AM

New recorder

Found this today. Well a friend was asking me about it. When are we....excuse me , present company excluded, stop making things that are made to "help" or "produce" the paranormal. It's like we are manufacturing ghosts. I don't get it.

Sometimes I think more advanced equipment is just clouding our true investigating.
TrishDirector/ConsultantAfterlife Investigations: A Paranormal Research SocietyMEMENTO MORI

#2 Old Guy

Old Guy

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Alamos, NM

Posted 15 March 2010 - 01:40 PM

New recorder

Found this today. Well a friend was asking me about it. When are we....excuse me , present company excluded, stop making things that are made to "help" or "produce" the paranormal. It's like we are manufacturing ghosts. I don't get it.

Sometimes I think more advanced equipment is just clouding our true investigating.


(Hand shoots up excitedly!!!)

Ooh! Ooh! I know! I know!

Because it looks... COOL! :)
Cynic. Skeptic. Believer.|||||||^

#3 DeadTrish

DeadTrish

    Village Elder

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hamilton/Philadelphia

Posted 15 March 2010 - 01:46 PM

****looks at product again... meh looks like any old recorder.
TrishDirector/ConsultantAfterlife Investigations: A Paranormal Research SocietyMEMENTO MORI

#4 Old Guy

Old Guy

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Alamos, NM

Posted 15 March 2010 - 02:35 PM

Ah. Look again. It's a Model RT-EVP ITC (?) Reserch Device! And it's "The Worlds First Real Time, Muti-Function Interactive EVP Instrument and Integrated Spirit Box Combination Device for ITC Research"

How cool iz that?!?

Ooh. I'm salivating here! (Reaches for credit card. Finds none.)

Hmm... I wonder how they calibrate it?
Cynic. Skeptic. Believer.|||||||^

#5 Old Guy

Old Guy

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Alamos, NM

Posted 15 March 2010 - 02:52 PM

Here's a claim...

"The NEW RT-EVP has been designed to detect frequencies from 15Hz, which is considered to be in the Infra-sound range, up to 20KHz. The lower frequency range has yet to be explored by Paranormal enthusiasts due to the inherent limitations with standard digital recorders."

If it can detect down to 15Hz, That's pretty special cuz it ain't easy to do. But conspicuously absent is the sensitivity at that frequency. The second sentence pisses me off! Well, maybe not a lot because I *am* still exploring. Unfortunately for these guys, "ghosts" generally appear around 14Hz. It may not seem like much, but it's roughly a change of 5%.
Cynic. Skeptic. Believer.|||||||^

#6 CaveRat2

CaveRat2

    Village Elder

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayette County, Pennsylvania
  • Interests:Serious Research and separating the truth from the hype in the paranormal field today.

Posted 15 March 2010 - 04:05 PM

I reviewed this thing on another forum. So for what I see it has two good things, it does sample at 96 KBPS. and PCM. And doing realtime audio monitoring while recording is a plus

But... Then they add a frequency analyzer that can be used while recording. Now please tell me how you can pay attention to all tthat goes on around you while doing frequency analysis? I generally run an audio clip through my spectrum analyzer 5 to 10 times, each time concentrating on a different portion of the band so as not to miss anything. In fact I generally use as a rule of thumb approximately 1 hour of analysis time for every minute of audio to be scanned. That insures nothing (that I am aware of) is missed. Yet they want me to believe you can do this in realtime while recording an EVP?

And builtr in white noise... Why, so you can cover up any possible EVPs? Or so you can use the white noise to create audio paraedolia? Either way, the goal of most audio system is a better signal to noise ratio, quieter, not making more noise.

And recording anmd playing at the same time. Does anyone but me see the possibility of contaminting your recording with what is being played back? Even if it simply acoustically picked up by the mic as you sit there. (Of course theis feature might come in handy if you want to dub in something to fake everyone out......)

Don't know whether this uses a 24 bit A to D or 16, but it is mono. Another strike against it.

If you are looking for a cheap digital recorder, get an H2 and do your analysis after the investigation when you can devote the time. Plus the H2 is $100 cheaper than this turkey!!!

#7 Old Guy

Old Guy

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Alamos, NM

Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:06 PM

Any impressions on how well it was (or even if it was) RF shielded?
Cynic. Skeptic. Believer.|||||||^

#8 DeadTrish

DeadTrish

    Village Elder

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hamilton/Philadelphia

Posted 16 March 2010 - 07:46 AM

I reviewed this thing on another forum. So for what I see it has two good things, it does sample at 96 KBPS. and PCM. And doing realtime audio monitoring while recording is a plus

But... Then they add a frequency analyzer that can be used while recording. Now please tell me how you can pay attention to all tthat goes on around you while doing frequency analysis? I generally run an audio clip through my spectrum analyzer 5 to 10 times, each time concentrating on a different portion of the band so as not to miss anything. In fact I generally use as a rule of thumb approximately 1 hour of analysis time for every minute of audio to be scanned. That insures nothing (that I am aware of) is missed. Yet they want me to believe you can do this in realtime while recording an EVP?

And builtr in white noise... Why, so you can cover up any possible EVPs? Or so you can use the white noise to create audio paraedolia? Either way, the goal of most audio system is a better signal to noise ratio, quieter, not making more noise.

And recording anmd playing at the same time. Does anyone but me see the possibility of contaminting your recording with what is being played back? Even if it simply acoustically picked up by the mic as you sit there. (Of course theis feature might come in handy if you want to dub in something to fake everyone out......)

Don't know whether this uses a 24 bit A to D or 16, but it is mono. Another strike against it.

If you are looking for a cheap digital recorder, get an H2 and do your analysis after the investigation when you can devote the time. Plus the H2 is $100 cheaper than this turkey!!!


I think the first part you talked about. I agree with you there. It's the whole white noise thing that gets me. I think that it has the potential to cause more paraedolia and contaminate your audio. I'm just really tired of seeing things that could "create" the paranormal. I think a serious investigator would examine this like you have, or at least they should. They should know that it isn't the next best thing. They should know that with just a little bit of research and proper technique that could already possess the skills and have the equipment to produce the same results. Oh and not spending almost $300
TrishDirector/ConsultantAfterlife Investigations: A Paranormal Research SocietyMEMENTO MORI

#9 CaveRat2

CaveRat2

    Village Elder

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayette County, Pennsylvania
  • Interests:Serious Research and separating the truth from the hype in the paranormal field today.

Posted 16 March 2010 - 02:12 PM

Any impressions on how well it was (or even if it was) RF shielded?


That remains to be seen. I haven't actually been inside one of these or put it to the test. ( My comments above were based on the features and data provided by the manufacturer.) Specs regarding shielding were not provided.

As I have done with other recorders I would be willing to test one if one was made available to me. (I don't have limitless resources to buy products for testing!) What testing I do conduct is because one of our associates is considering purchase and the device is evaluated because it applies to our research. We have no plans to buy one of these recorders simply because we don't need any new recorders right now. And because of my mentioned concerns it is unlikely I would buy one if I did need a recorder. For the money there are better ones at a lower cost.

#10 Old Guy

Old Guy

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Alamos, NM

Posted 17 March 2010 - 01:00 PM

Specs regarding shielding were not provided.


AFAIK - They never are with these things. Have you ever seen any?
Cynic. Skeptic. Believer.|||||||^

#11 CaveRat2

CaveRat2

    Village Elder

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayette County, Pennsylvania
  • Interests:Serious Research and separating the truth from the hype in the paranormal field today.

Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:27 PM

Specs regarding shielding were not provided.


AFAIK - They never are with these things. Have you ever seen any?


Not until you get into professional grade equipment. About the only way these can be tested is to do the testing aftermarket in a private lab. That involves purchasing one and using that one. Obviously not many of us can afford to just get a bunch of recorders just to run tests that don't return the costs incurred.

It is what I mean when I say teh H2 is the cheapest recorder that meets minimum specs that I have tested. There may be others that also are good but I can't make a recommendation based on something I haven't tested.

#12 DeadTrish

DeadTrish

    Village Elder

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hamilton/Philadelphia

Posted 19 March 2010 - 07:10 AM

H2

Is this the H2 you are talking about? Just wanted to make sure I had the right one
TrishDirector/ConsultantAfterlife Investigations: A Paranormal Research SocietyMEMENTO MORI

#13 Old Guy

Old Guy

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Alamos, NM

Posted 19 March 2010 - 09:42 AM

H2

Is this the H2 you are talking about? Just wanted to make sure I had the right one

More about recorders in general. As a group, they tend to be so poorly shielded, it makes them very proned to radio interference.

CaveRat: Where can I read up on these "minimum specs" of you speak?
Cynic. Skeptic. Believer.|||||||^

#14 DeadTrish

DeadTrish

    Village Elder

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hamilton/Philadelphia

Posted 19 March 2010 - 10:24 AM

H2

Is this the H2 you are talking about? Just wanted to make sure I had the right one

More about recorders in general. As a group, they tend to be so poorly shielded, it makes them very proned to radio interference.

CaveRat: Where can I read up on these "minimum specs" of you speak?


Oh trust me I know. I'm def not one of the those ones that thinks every odd sound or voice is an EVP. I take it very serious. :hug:
TrishDirector/ConsultantAfterlife Investigations: A Paranormal Research SocietyMEMENTO MORI

#15 CaveRat2

CaveRat2

    Village Elder

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayette County, Pennsylvania
  • Interests:Serious Research and separating the truth from the hype in the paranormal field today.

Posted 19 March 2010 - 02:16 PM

H2

Is this the H2 you are talking about? Just wanted to make sure I had the right one


Trish, yest that is the one I tested. One caveat to keep in mind with the H2. They use a phased microphone arrangement to give a stereo sound even with the mics close together. While the sound quality is fine, the spacing is too close to do spatial analysis. This is based on the speed of sound rather than directional characteristics. Thus I recommend that when you use the H2 you purchase external mics and place them 24 - 30" apart when you set up for EVP. Also keep in mind that while the H2 meets specs, that is ONLY when it is used in its HQ mode. It does not meet specs if run in its lower quality settings.

At the time I tested the H2, it's upgraded version the H4 was not available. This is an improved H2, and based on what I have read it too should meet or exceed specs.


More about recorders in general. As a group, they tend to be so poorly shielded, it makes them very proned to radio interference.

CaveRat: Where can I read up on these "minimum specs" of you speak?


I have done a couple reports based on tests and have the details up on my website. As a quick summary the four minimum specs are as follows:

1. Records at 96 KBPS or greater

2. Uses a 24 Bit wide A to D conversion process.

3. Records in stereo for spatial analysis and redundency.

4. Uses a non-lossy format (PCM, not CELP) The final file format should be non-lossy, WAV or BWF. MP3 or other compressed format is not acceptable, nor is it acceptable to record in a lossy format and convert the result to non-lossy. Once lost the signal is irrepairably corrupted.

These specs were arrived at in my labs using an Agilent Technologies spectrum analyzer, Tektronix oscilloscopes, Tektronix function generator, Distortion analyzer, and associated support equipment. The tests were conducted using a Fostex FR2 digital recorder operating in several different modes for comparison of signal and distortion components.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users