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Bowling for Columbine


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#16 Jhangles

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:54 AM

Martial arts is great, but what about when the person attacking you is a 350 lb monster?  Or when there are 3 or 4 attackers?  I hope you guys don't think all criminals work alone....  I've taken quite a bit of martial arts (my favorite being Krav Maga), and I'm 220 lbs, but I'm delusional enough to think that I could take more than at most 2 guys at my absolute best.  And there is no garauntee that those guys will not have weapons.  Even baseball bats would multiply the danger to myself and loved ones many times.

If you are afraid that you might accidentally kill someone with a gun, go get some free instruction first and learn how to use one.  
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#17 Iwonder

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 09:47 AM

I saw "Bowling for Columbine" and I thought it was a well documented piece.  

I agree with those who feel that guns should not be banned period.  It is not the guns that we should be afraid of, its the nuts that get them illegally and decide to do what they please.  

We should have the right to protect ourselves and our families, and we should not let the goverment take that away. It is very unfortunate that so many violent events have occured, but many may have been over dramatized by the media just to put the fear that we experience today in us.

It was sad to see that the US was the only place that had over 11 thousand people die a year by guns oppose to other countries where they had less than 70 people who died by guns per year and many other places less than 50 a year.

Its not about the guns, its about how we treat and respect each other.  Its about a system that had a mother getting up at 5 am to get on a bus that traveled an hour to go to work before her son was awake to go to school. This child was left in the care of an uncle who obviously was not responsible with his weapon and thus the little boy took the gun to school and kill an innocent sweet little girl.

Its about our values as Americans, and ALL those values need to start and be ENFORCED at HOME.  

Its time out to start blaming guns for the behavior of our society.

#18 RCGH

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 10:32 AM

camille   A+++  What she said I could have not said it better.
It would be easier to rub a bobcats BAD_WORD with sandpaper than make me go up there.

#19 ghosthunter1010

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 10:48 AM

I believe that the enviorment they were in had a lot to do with what happened.  I know down here a child shot a teacher in the class room and killed him.

I myself have seen in the school system down here in florida that they don't take bullying seriously.  And that is when kids look for other ways of handling the problem.

I have often wondered where the parents of the two killers were when their children bought the guns to commit the crime.
I myself as a parent know that we can't watch their movement every second of the day but I feel we can be involved instead of turning the other way.

I am not afraid of weapons it is just the fact that it is so easy for anyone to get one now.  Even those with crimminal records can still find a way to have a gun.

There just needs to be tuffer laws all over concerning the problem of who can get their hands on these weapons.

#20 Paul_G

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:11 AM

Did you know Disney is trying to block distribution of Moore's new movie?

http://story.news.ya...isure_disney_dc

This country is becoming more like the Soviet Union every day.

#21 MoonChild

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 10:26 AM

Bush Bushed ;D
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#22 Vampchick21

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 09:36 AM

Martial arts is great, but what about when the person attacking you is a 350 lb monster?  Or when there are 3 or 4 attackers?  I hope you guys don't think all criminals work alone....  I've taken quite a bit of martial arts (my favorite being Krav Maga), and I'm 220 lbs, but I'm delusional enough to think that I could take more than at most 2 guys at my absolute best.  And there is no garauntee that those guys will not have weapons.  Even baseball bats would multiply the danger to myself and loved ones many times.

If you are afraid that you might accidentally kill someone with a gun, go get some free instruction first and learn how to use one.  



:(  Jhangles, I hope I don't offend you when I admit to wanting to repeat the entire 'Self Defense against Fruit' skit from Monty Python?  LOL!

On a serious note, I live in Canada, so the entire concept of a constitutional right to bear arms is very strange to me.  I understand the intent behind that right when it was put in, the United States had just won it's Revolution, and 1812 was looming.  So giving the citizens of the newly born Republic makes perfect sense there.

But to be completely honest, I fail to see why it can be clung to with such ferocity.  

This is not to say that Canada does not have gun crimes.  We do.  Over the last while, we seem to be averaging 4 deaths and injuries by guns per weekend in the city of Toronto alone.  However, judging by newspaper reports, these for the most part seem gang related, and hence, the guns are likey obtained by illegal means.  We're just more easily shocked by it up here, or so it seems to me.

I have ZERO issue with someone LEGALLY purchasing and owning a gun.  As far as I can tell, they use them for hunting, for socializing in gun clubs and shooting ranges to hone their skill because it is something they enjoy doing, and for providing them a safe feeling at their home.  (although I must say, I have no gun, my husband has no gun.  We feel safe in our home.)  What I find to be at issue is the failure of SOME to store their guns in a safe manner.  The 6 year old child in Flint, MI would NEVER have taken that gun to school and shot his classmate if his Uncle had PROPERLY STORED the weapon.  

Oh yes, and to the guy in this thread that spewed off about non gun owners calling to gun owners for help in an attack and stating that he wouldn't lift a finger?  Sorry dude, but kiss my grits.    :P

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#23 Paul_G

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 09:46 AM

To all the people who are afraid of guns or don't think we need them. When your house is broken into and you're being raped or being beaten to a pulp. Don't call me to help with my guns cause I don't want to infringe on your rights or your opinion of not owning one for your own protection.
I just hope you live close enough to the police station for them to get there before your DEAD!


I didn't read that one till you pointed it out, Vamp. And this guys thought process isn't too uncommon in the US. We have thousands of guys like him down here.

What's scary is that I just know this guy must own craploads of guns and ammo. This is the type of guy that would probably go out and shoot some 15 year old kid who walked in his yard, or shoot someone because he got cut off in traffic. And those types of events are far more common than someone successfully using a gun to defend themselves against an intruder.

#24 Vampchick21

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 09:57 AM

Well....lol...I don't know if we're any saner than anyone else.  Some would say we're pretty nutty up here. :(

I just think that it's a vastly different way of looking at the issue.  Besides, I'll be honest.  I have ZERO clue as to what Canada's gun laws are!  Never felt the need to look into it, because gun ownership is not in our own constitution as a right, and I've never felt the need for a gun.  Even when there was a sexual predator in my area.  

I think it Moore's movie, he did the Canadian part of it to show that it's every bit as much HOW we think and perceive things.  

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#25 hippiecowboyco

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 08:51 AM

Figured I'd weigh in.

I'm an ACE teacher just up the slope from Columbine (it was a colleague who was murdered at Columbine), teaching At-Risk high schoolers.  The school's and my phone rang off the hook five years ago when it all went down.  

We showed the movie about a month ago for Film Studies, and the kids really dug it, and were quite voluble about some of Moore's innaccuracies.  Specifically his statements about the proximity of Lockheed, Rocky Flats, USAFA, and Cheyenne Mountain (where a first cousin of mine wrapped up his career).  Other than that, a film worthy of an Oscar...

Yes, I own a few guns (one of which I am very proud to be the 5th generation to fire), but will not allow a handgun in the house.  I left the NRA many years ago(issues with their stick in the mud stance on assault weaponry), but left the sticker on my truck- juxtaposing my Deadhead sticker- quite a conundrum? It was fun to be teaching for Houston ISD(Env. Ed.), hair halfway down my back, and a gun rack that only held a sprayer nozzle and a prod.  Gave the local sheriff something to think about(I never was hassled).

Not sure about the law there now, but at that time, you could drive down the road with a loaded gun in the rack and an open container...

When I lived in Flagstaff, we had a store on Route 66 where you could buy a six pack, bottle of Jack, a nudie mag, and weaponry- all through the drive through window...

Moore's initial question is poignant- are we a nation of gun nuts or are we just nuts?

Honestly, I don't know and I think my Revolutionary ancestors would be wondering as well.
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#26 Alsie R.

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 03:14 PM

okay...time for the liberal nutcase to weigh in her opinion.

 you have to admit that the columbine tragedy was a definite wake up call for our country. i was only in fourth grade at the time and i even knew what a horrible thing it was. i believe in gun control. i don't believe that just becasue your an american and of the constitution, you can go somewhere and buy a gun. i don't necessarily hate or like the NRA. its okay, i tolerate it. alot of my relatives have guns and small children. i don't like that. guns and little kids are a deadly mix. i know nothing about guns but i don't think they're a good thing.

bowling for columbine is one of my all time favorite movies. michael moore is basically my hero. i clapped for him when he won that oscar and stood up against bush (who is a monkey in a suit capable of speech). the movie is inaccurate amd a little over reacting at parts. but i thought the interview with charleton heston was a bit funny.

 the constitutional amendment, the right to keep and bear arms has no place in today's society.
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#27 Vampchick21

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 04:13 PM

the constitutional amendment, the right to keep and bear arms has no place in today's society.



:(

Well, some might debate that point, especially given the apparent lack of safety in some areas.  Again, this is the Canadian speaking basing it on various US news reports that she sees/reads/hears.  And I honestly don't know just how accurate they REALLY are, since I don't live there.  

Then there are legitimate hunters...I have zero issue with them owning guns.  Same with those that enjoy going to shooting ranges as a hobby, or those that collect antique weapons.  There ARE instances outside of policing or military activities.  I just think that everyone that applies for a license for a gun, and I'm saying both in Canada and the US, should receive training in regards to gun safety and storage.  (but then, I'm really unfamilar with the full extent of gun laws in both nations)

hrmmmm...I guess I can intellectually understand gun ownership, but nothing deeper.  But as I said earlier, I myself CANNOT grasp why that little bit of the constitution down there is held to with such near religious ferver.  ???

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#28 hippiecowboyco

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 05:36 PM

For Vampchick-

I've dear cousins in Canada, with much the same p.o.v. as y'all.  
I agree, training to some extent is required before shouldering a weapon.  However, the reality is: who's certified to provide that training?
And for ohers:
Here's the rub(for me, at least).  I grew up relatively gunfree (my pop's stance being that we didn't need to hunt to put meat on the table- and we were marginally above poverty even after mom starting teaching!).
I taught myself how to track and trap.
Trapping paid for my college texts and a little extra.
Every state but CO has allowed me to trap without B.S. "hunter safety" courses, which are heavily firearm centered.  I've never carried or needed a firearm for my trap lines (and when laid, visited at least thrice daily- unlike the vast majority of trappers).  I wasted a few Saturdays for "safety" instruction, learned nothing, and now am licensed (again) to lay trap lines (for those that don't understand the terminology or are anti hunting/et.al., kindly lay off- y'all simply are a pain due to your ignorance).
Guns in general have been a part of US heritage since we were marginal colonies, and has mushroomed beyond realistic control.

Bit of a genie's bottle/Pandora's Box?
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#29 Vampchick21

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 06:46 PM

That it is :(  And honestly, other than police or military people, I'm not sure who would be qualified to train.

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#30 shellas13

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Posted 08 May 2004 - 11:35 AM

If you are afraid that you might accidentally kill someone with a gun, go get some free instruction first and learn how to use one.  


Yeah...wow...like...wow...really??...thanks.

But, uh, no thanks. ::(




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