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Spirit Boxes


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#16 TheresaRHPS

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:20 PM

We have used both the "Radio Shack Hack" and the Ovilus in our research, and I don't find either one to actually be a useful tool in investigation...but DARN! The Ovilus is really fun to play with, lol. When we take it out to "play," we leave it on Dictionary Mode. For one thing, unless you have the readout, it is impossible to understand what that thing is saying half the time, and, thanks to audio pareidolia, you can hear just about anything you want.

From time to time, though, we will get pretty clear words that seemingly coincide perfectly with either whats going on at the time, or the known history of the location. Of course, ya gotta factor in how many words it spits out that have absolutely NO bearing on anything. That aspect, somehow, conveniently get "forgotten" with a lot of teams. I get frustrated when people present these little known facts about an entity's identity or history and when asked, it turns out that information did not come from records and documents, but through the Ovilus, lol.

As far as the Radio Shack Hack...which scans through radio channels...I have absolutely no use for this item, either as a research tool or a toy, lol. I had originally thought that you were supposed to piece together the phonemes into meaningful words, and when I pointed out the fallacies of that idea, I was told I was doing it wrong...that I was supposed to be listening "under" the speech into the white noise, lmao. I've never condoned using white noise in EVP work, again, because of audio pareidolia, so I just stay away from this device. I guess I'm not one of the chosen few---somewhere I read or heard where there are only a few chosen individuals involved with the original Frank's Box that were able to interpret the messages sent through it. I honestly cannot remember where I heard this, but I do remember that Rosemary Guiley and Zak Bagans were two of the individuals that had this "gift."

As far as phone apps...when we're having a slow night, we sometimes whip those out and "play" a little if there are no clients around, lol. I like the one that shows you your environment through the camera lens, but adds a little flitting ghost in, lol. The Ghost Radar one is great for scaring kids with on our tours, lol.
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#17 White Witch

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:51 PM

It would be nice if this actually was a way to speak with the spirits.
Right this way to my haunted space.

#18 CaveRat2

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:19 PM

It would just as good if it were PROVEN that there were even any spirits there to speak to! A lot of circumstantial evidence to be sure but hard proof?

#19 Puti

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:07 PM

From what you all have said about "spirit boxes", it seems to be just as good as listening to a fan drone away. I know I have been amused to be in bed and listen to a fan and imagine what it might be saying. :)
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#20 CaveRat2

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:07 AM

From what you all have said about "spirit boxes", it seems to be just as good as listening to a fan drone away. I know I have been amused to be in bed and listen to a fan and imagine what it might be saying. Posted Image


Actually that statement sums it up quite nicely!

#21 White Witch

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 02:22 PM

CaveRat2 I meant how things work on the other side in regards to contacting us.
Right this way to my haunted space.

#22 jimmary

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

What about spirit karaoke?

#23 CaveRat2

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

CaveRat2 I meant how things work on the other side in regards to contacting us.


Let's consider that for a bit. I will go on the assumption that there are spirits and they do desire to contact us and have for millenia. I will for the moment disregard the new theories regarding interdimensional beings, aliens, etc. and stay with the traditional ghost idea that spirits are deceased humans.

Now consider historical records. People have had visitation from spirits and recorded them for as long as we have been keeping records. Many legends are built up from ghost stories of haunted locations and sightings of various apparitions. If we accept this we can acept that people can see ghosts at times since early reports involved only sightings; long before anyone even considered a camera or recorder. Thus we can state that no tech is required and that the spirit can manifest in visible light since that is the method the early observers used.

It should also be pointed out taht at the time these reports surfaced there was no such thing as EM Fields generated by humans. The onlt EM Fields present were those created by nature, i.e. solar activity, lightning, static electricity, etc. Thus clearly we can show that such manmade fields were not required for a spirit to make its presence known.

So why do we seem to think that we need to come in and clutter up the area with modern sources of EMF in order for a spirit to make contact? Why the need to pull in radio stations for the spirit to communicate? Where did the spirit learn how to manipulate this new tech especially if our spirit passed over long before such devices were even thought of? We need to consider the "how" when we attribute this ability to a spirit as well as the "why". How does a spirit control the spirit box to create messages? And why would a spirit go to all this trouble when it has been shown by earlier observation all it needs do is speak to us?

We need to step back and consider what we are doing. All we want to do is make a record of a contact so why contaminate everything with a lot of white noise or other garbage? A simple recorder will do nicely since we are only trying to record a contact made by an entity whose history demonstartes it can speak to us directly without all this extra junk.

Of course one factor has been overlooked when we add the ghost box. we have just introduced something which has all the abilities needed create audio paredolia. So now consider two things about the scenario. We assume we have a spirit that can speak directly or a device that is known to be able to create false positives. Which is the most likely to provide real evidence versus false positives? I will leave that to the reader to decide based on the evidence at hand....

#24 icenine

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

You're making an assumption that segments of broadcast audio are stringed together to create speech. It doesn't have to be that complex. We both accept that EVP's are real, and that the source of an EVP has something to do with electrical energy getting into the guts of an AF amp. This is what could be happening with spirit boxes, infiltration of EMF into an audio amp, but it could go beyond that. Whatever an EVP really is, it could be knocking an oscillator off frequency. This makes the most sense to me, as the FM broadcast band is the preferred way to use one of these devices.

A spirit box has more pathways for the EVP source to enter the device. The VFO and/or IF oscillators may get knocked off frequency, the heard audio may also be heterodyne. Lastly, the EVP source may be getting into the AF amplifier.

These devices may really work. They should work without the frequency being swept, but sweeping the frequency may provide for more opportunity for tuned circuits within the receiver to find a resonant frequency or a frequency close enough to get some interesting heterodyne.

Cheers
Rich

Save your efforts.

These so-called ghost boxes simply play on the concept of audio paredolia. Put enough snippets of sound together, add in a pulsing effect whik mimics the pattern of human speech and you get instant communication! Trouble is it is all contrived in the mind of the listener. Ghost boxes and Shack hacks all work using the same principle.

Consider just what would be required of a spirit if one was to try to use such a device. It would need to know what station the snippet of sound was going to be available on before the fact so it xould "tune" that station, then it would have to provide a voltage to the appropriate pin of the tuning chip at that precise instant to cause the chip to select the desired station. (This voltage would need to be accurrate to yhe millivolt, otherwise the wrong station would be selected!) And all this would need to be done in milliseconds without error since an error would result in flawed speech.

Oh, and all this from a spirit who, if one follows the ommon belief, may have lived 100 years or more ago when a basic telephone was considered high tech, and most people considered basic electricity a miracle....

My investigations use proven scientific methods and equipment following accepted practices. We are out to find answers, not ghosts.



#25 CaveRat2

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:40 PM

Two distinct mthods are being considered here. The first is a signal being coupled directly to an electrical conductor or component. This would be completely passive and as such would fall under same realm as EVP. I agree that such a method is possible and may be used since it would aaccount for EVPs being picked up by various electronic components, the only commonality being that they contain an amplifier.

It is when we start introducing other factors things become problematic. Suppose an oscillator was being affected. It becomes not only necessary to .affect the frequency but to do so in a manner that prdduces intelligible speech. Thus extreme precision is required and this must also be done without errors since errors would produce false responses not the desired speech pattern.

When it comes to heterodynes this also requires the same degree of acurracy. Hetreodynes are created at defined points, i.e. the sum and difference of the two frequencies. Thus responses could be validated should this be the case. In fact very few combinations would produce the desired effects since the heterodyne as an EVP would have to fall within the audio spectrum. Thus the oscillator frequency of a signal being used in the process could not offset by more than about 5 kHz (The normal high limit of speech fricatives.)

#26 jimmary

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:46 AM

You guys impress me with your knowledge of the electrical/audio angle and related theories of this. And I can barely work a remote control.

#27 icenine

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:51 PM

As always, your comments are reasonable and well thought out, but consider this; what pathway does the EVP take to find it's way into an AF amp? IMO there is mystery here. An EVP usually doesn't swamp an AF preamp, the EVP is normally lower in amplitude than the ambient AF. A quiet room may be -60dB or so, and the EVP is under the noise.

So how does the EVP find it's way into the magnetic or digital storage media? Following your logic (which I have trouble faulting), the source of the EVP must possess detailed knowledge of electronics theory. But it gets more problematic. I have shorted the inputs of an old cassette deck and have still received EVP's though this recorder. Likewise, I have assembled and tested AM RF detector circuits with interesting results. I haven't tried a Faraday cage, but I have one, a screen pouch with a lead that goes off to ground. Although I have limited experience with alternate methods of introducing signal into recording devices, I have read, with interest, what others are doing.

Besides all that, how does the EVP make it into a recorder without overloading gain stages? We have all seen CB radios rip up broadcast television signals. If the EVP entered the recording device in this fashion then the answer would be a simple one. My guess is that the "signal strength" of the EVP is quite low. If the EVP were RF based, it would lack the power to affect a well designed AF gain stage.

The most basic, fundamental question... What is the power source of the EVP? Not RF, there's not enough signal there. My guess falls in line with the most common theory, that ambient AF and possibly RF is disturbed. Then why don't our ears pick up EVP's ?. I caught a few clear and loud EVP's which I didn't hear with my own ears. This baffles logical explanation.

Omitting the logical leaves the illogical.

My best guess is that evidence is the result of manipulation of AF, IF, RF, IR, visible light and UV bandwidths. Credible video evidence has been captured on IR, visible, and UV bandwidths. Audio evidence is the easiest to catch. There's quite a bit going on here. Because of this, and considering our abysmal collective understanding of what is really going on, I am personally reluctant to discount any opportunity we present for the capture of credible evidence.

I agree that it is highly unlikely that any entity has the ability to string phenomes together. I say this; that if speech can be imprinted on a recording device in a manner that is unknown to us, why can't tuned circuits be banged around a bit, the result of this being captured evidence?

Consider a metal detector, which can detect the presence of passive, unseen metallic objects. The metallic object is detected when a tuned circuit is detuned. Does a buried bottle cap possess the intelligence to knock an oscillator off-frequency? Of course not. That bottle cap is completely passive, but it has those properties that allow it to interfere with the operation of an tuned circuit. If a bottle cap can effect the operation of a tuned circuit, why not a spiritual entity?

I have an SB-7 (2011) on the way. I'll play with it and document whatever (if anything) the thing spits out. Because spiritual energy can effect AF through IR and UV (and possibly beyond), I'm keeping an open mind. Time will tell. I promise you this, that if I give you the opportunity to tell me "I told you so", I'll let you know.

BTW, I'm not planning on picking up an Ovilus any time soon. "Spiritual Energy" stringing together snippets of speech? As far as the Ovilus goes, we completely agree.

Cheers
Rich



Two distinct mthods are being considered here. The first is a signal being coupled directly to an electrical conductor or component. This would be completely passive and as such would fall under same realm as EVP. I agree that such a method is possible and may be used since it would aaccount for EVPs being picked up by various electronic components, the only commonality being that they contain an amplifier.

It is when we start introducing other factors things become problematic. Suppose an oscillator was being affected. It becomes not only necessary to .affect the frequency but to do so in a manner that prdduces intelligible speech. Thus extreme precision is required and this must also be done without errors since errors would produce false responses not the desired speech pattern.

When it comes to heterodynes this also requires the same degree of acurracy. Hetreodynes are created at defined points, i.e. the sum and difference of the two frequencies. Thus responses could be validated should this be the case. In fact very few combinations would produce the desired effects since the heterodyne as an EVP would have to fall within the audio spectrum. Thus the oscillator frequency of a signal being used in the process could not offset by more than about 5 kHz (The normal high limit of speech fricatives.)



#28 jimmary

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:17 AM

Rich, your comment regarding spiritual entities reacting in the same manner as passive objects affecting circut of a metal detector; would you put that same theory to battery drain? I have no brain for electronics, but as just a natural curiosity I have theorized that battery drain is not on purpose but an affecting by-product of close proximity to any type of battery. To paraphrase what CaveRat stated previously, human exposure to spirits has been around since ancient times, and apparently spirits have never needed any kind of man-made electronic assistance to materialize, with which I wholey agree. So why the battery drain? Are spirits just practical-joking a-holes or is it more scientifically based? I'm guessing it will be one of those things we cannot explain.

#29 icenine

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:07 PM

Rich, your comment regarding spiritual entities reacting in the same manner as passive objects affecting circut of a metal detector; would you put that same theory to battery drain? I have no brain for electronics, but as just a natural curiosity I have theorized that battery drain is not on purpose but an affecting by-product of close proximity to any type of battery. To paraphrase what CaveRat stated previously, human exposure to spirits has been around since ancient times, and apparently spirits have never needed any kind of man-made electronic assistance to materialize, with which I wholey agree. So why the battery drain? Are spirits just practical-joking a-holes or is it more scientifically based? I'm guessing it will be one of those things we cannot explain.


Hmm..

Personally, I don't believe in battery drain due to spiritual entities draining the battery. I figure it like this, there are thousands of folks engaged in ghost hunting and paranormal investigation. The overwhelming majority of these folks have never experienced unexplained power drain. The tiniest minority of investigators mention unexplainable power drain. Most likely, the explanation has nothing to do with the paranormal. More likely, one weak rechargable cell is responsible for the power drain of a battery pack, this happens all the time.. The device may have been left on standby and it took a bump and powered up. Dead batteries may have been used instead of fresh.

Batteries work in a well understood, predictable way. It takes a very low impedance load to pull down a fresh battery. Only a low impedance load can quickly discharge a healthy battery. It defies everything I understand to suggest that the resistance of free air can be lowered by an entity to a point where a battery is discharged.

Sticking a battery in a battery tester and waiting to see the meter go down... down.. down... is something should never, ever happen. Spiritual energy must still obey the laws of physics.

Gotta run now, but I did want to reply to you. I'll get back to this when I get back :)

Cheers
Rich

You guys impress me with your knowledge of the electrical/audio angle and related theories of this. And I can barely work a remote control.


Electronics? Easy. Remote controls? Tough. It ain't you...

#30 jimmary

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:24 AM

Your explanation gives me a whole other insight into that theory. Thank you for the response; the info proviced will obviously come in handy whenever that phenomena pops up.




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