59 replies to this topic

[whispers_of_fire]

Over Thanksgiving I had an opportunity to talk with kind of a sort of local historian in San Luis Obispo, Steve-who didn't know of my interest in the Paranormal 'til much later
in the evening-mentioned a Shoshomi burial ground and midden
about an hour away in Camria, Ca. I was of course intrigued at the thought, not only for the paranormal research opportunity it offered but the historical significance. The Shoshomi had been around for about 2500 years, San Luis County is now considered Archaeologically significant because of the dig sites.

But I am not a little bit leery of going in to investigate, would the honored dead who rest there be offended that a non-Native American is sniffing around, taking pictures? Do old hostilities live on in Spirits? Or is it just kind of ethically questionable??

[OwlGoddess]

greetings and it's good to be back from thanksgiving, whispers!

the shoshoni burial ground info sounds tantalizing... all native people have a rich history and an amazing respect for their long-dead elders and relatives.  you've probably stumbled upon a gold mine.

HOWEVER, and this is a really really big however, i would tread lightly.  even for those of us that are part native american of whatever tribe or ancestry, wandering into to known burial grounds can be questionable.

now, i'll have to say that my personal knowledge of the rites and beliefs of the shoshoni pale greatly in comparison to what i know of my own tribe and others, but as a rule most tribes hold the burial sites of the oldest of elders in the very highest esteem.  

whispers, i'm quite confident that you would go into the burial area with the utmost respect and gravity about you.  however, do be aware that protective measures exist (as they did in egypt!) -- by means of spiritual protection.  

we can never be sure that the people buried there would be okay with non-tribal people communicating with the spirits... but i can say on the other hand that if you go in and offer them a gift (food, water, something of useful value - cornmeal or jerkey) as a token of resepect, your visit may be viewed in a better light by both the living AND the dead.

also, if you're really wanting to do this properly, if you have a shoshoni friend, have them go with you and ask questions through them.  

remember that with any native burial site, you risk scrutiny from both the dead and the living.  i would conduct business with much formality and much ritual respect so that both parties are satisfied.

of course, all my best to you...

OG

[Willow]

Greetings Whispers, I agree with OG, getting permission, bringing an offering, taking along a member of this tribe and showing complete respect are good incentives...also you might want to say blessings and take special precautions to protect yourself against anything that might be remotely evil still lurking...ofcourse i'll be saying blessings for my bestest pal and wish you the best of luck with this if you choose to pursue this investigation (and would love some updates too btw)

[Paul_G]

I wouldn't mess with that at all unless, like people are saying, you have not just a member of the tribe, but someone from the tribe who is spiritual come with you and keep you out of trouble.

I knew a woman once who was the equivalent of a 'medicine woman' for her tribe. We got to talking about ghosts one night and some of the stories she told me chilled the blood. Also spirits from those kinds of places are strong, unpredictable, and tend to follow you. I had an ex who went to a sweat lodge once and did something she wasn't supposed to do. I kid you not, a spirit followed her home, and we needed to bring the woman I mentioned earlier to come and remove it.

I guess I'm reluctant to deal with the dead of any culture other than my own, because I might be unintentionally disrespectful and also I know that I would have no hope of communicating with them. The risks outweigh the potential benefits. And this is coming from a guy who generally has almost no fear of spirits.

[OwlGoddess]

paul_g, i agree with your idea of only hunting among the dead of your own people.  it is so easy to unintentionally offend or "carry off" spirits and energy from the not-so-agreeable dead.

your story about the medicine lodge reminded me of something that exists on my parents' rural acreage.  i'll preface this by saying that both me and my dad are of cherokee descent and both of us have experience and learning from great-grandfather, who was a medicine man of sorts.

the acreage spoken of here is in rural northeastern oklahoma, not far from the kansas line; 20 acres adjoined to 40 acres owned by my uncle.  it's undeveloped, with no previous homesites on the property.  there is evidence of acorn-leaching pots all over the sandstone boulders, a natural spring, and there are very faint rock carvings that suggest that native people lived there some time ago.

on the southeast corner of the property is a perfectly round, flat area of ground at the center of which is a single charred tree trunk.  nothing but tall grass grows in the circle.  dad claimed early on that this was a medicine wheel, or a medicine man's circle.  no insects fly or light there, the deer and turkeys avoid the circle as well.  we have both felt the presence of a male spirit there.

when we've been out at night camping there, or out early in the morning hunting turkey or deer, we'll see owls congregating in the woods around the circle.  great horned owls, the cherokee witche's familiars.  dad and i started taking gifts of cornbread, food, water, and deer antler to place at the center of the circle to befriend the medicine man's spirit while we were in the woods.  if we put out a gift to the medicine man before we hunted, we had good luck and all would go well.  

once we went out camping there and failed to lay a gift in the circle.  all went well until night time, when we were all camping under the stars.  we were swarmed by giant mosquitoes that came out of nowhere in the middle of the night, and sought shelter in the camper of the pickup truck.  the mosquitoes manifested inside the camper, as well.  we left in the middle of the night.  

since we do not know anything about native people who might have lived in the area, or how long ago they might have been there, we have no way of acting in accordance with any particular tribal belief.  dad claims that the medicine man was a black wizard, and that he protects the land around his site.  that's why offerings are necessary.  it's a precarious relationship that we have to our land, but we have good luck as long as we're respectful and generous to the spiritual inhabitant(s).

OG

[whispers_of_fire]

OG, my deepest thanks, I didn't think of a gift but I am, as
a rule, very respectful of the dead, especially the older dead, but cornmeal or fresh meat's a fantastic idea and the protective measures are always in effect*well, at least the ones infused to the tatoos*Regretably, I don't know anyone of Shoshoni heritage, but I do know some of the basic courtesies as far as Native Americans go though that can differ greatly.

Greetings, Lady Willow, I am a little leery of going in alone or at least with just my older sister, I agree that if I can't find someone of that heritage to go in with me, I'm going to need a crash course in Shoshoni etiquette and language, but I will be very cautious when I'm there, besides, I have about 60 days. As always, I am grateful for your blessings :-[

Paul_G, that's a very good point and as I said, I'm going to be very careful in my research and when dealing with any spirits there. Um, out of curiousity, what did the woman do that was taboo??

[spiritdragon]

Hey Whispers you might bring along some tobacco,bread,beef/ deer meat jerky,and water but definitely do not bring any uncooked meat along.

[whispers_of_fire]

Hi, Spirit, at the risk of sounding like a savage, why no raw meat?

[spiritdragon]

The reason well is that the eating of raw meat is forbidden in native american culture and it might set off the anti skinwalker charms and spells.Other than that it is a hygenine and a pack weight saving issue.

[whispers_of_fire]

DANG...forgot about that, thanks, Buddy

[freyjasdottir]

this is slightly off topic but goes towards OwlGoddesses post that I know I saw before but can't remember where....what else can cause land to be barren of animals...near my grandfathers farm, which is loaded with wildlife, there is another farm where nothing lives, no deer no turkey not even chipmunks, its like a giant dead zone.  My father was talking about it the other day because my grandfather's neighbor had to run the current owner off my grandfather's farm for hunting without permission and I was wondering why if the other man owns 40 or so acres himself why did he need to cross three other farms and other private land to hunt on ours.  My father said nothing ever crosses there at least not in the 40 some years he'd been hunting and tramping through the area.

[spiritdragon]

I remembered a few things. Most of the plains and desert people either burned thier dead or left the body to decompose on a bed suspended by poles. the only time they buried someone is if the person was evil. As for that circle something evil and powerful could there.

[Paul_G]

As far as the taboo thing my ex did...

I've never been to a sweat lodge myself but I hear you go in this small building where a fire is burning. It's some type of cleansing ritual, I believe. You are given this bundle of herbs that you are supposed to throw in the fire at the end of the ceremony. They are VERY specific about you throwing the herbs in the fire.

Well, my ex being an idiot, she kept the herbs and took them home and hung them on her wall. What do Indians know about Indian rituals, right? So for the next couple of weeks after that we had the ghost of a child in her apartment, that once in a while would laugh very close to your head.

One time, my ex was "using the bathroom", with the shower next to where she was sitting. The shower curtain was closed, and she heard the laughter from DIRECTLY behind the curtain. Next thing I know, she comes bailing out of the bathroom with her pants around her ankles. That'll learn her to listen to instructions! ;D

Needless to say, the next day she told the medicine woman what was going on. The woman knew immediatly that my ex had kept the herbs, came over and took the spirit away in a five minute process.

I never believed stories like this until one happened to me. It was the weirdest thing. But I have a very high respect for Indian spirituality since then. Their cultures are much, much more in tune with that world than ours is.

[OwlGoddess]

masq - excellent question!  you know, in most cases barren land can be easily explained by the mundane presence of toxic chemicals, increased magnetic fields, surronding features or utilities that repel wildlife.

in this case, the circle of "no person's land" in my post is near one corner of a completely wooded, uninhabited area that has natural geographic features like hills, streams, and large sand stone boulders.  it's a circle about 10 foot in diameter with a charred tree trunk in the very center.  we've tested the soil for contaminants and came up with nada - only our psychic investigations netted any information.  

what ever is there isn't evil, but it wants to protect the land at all cost.

OG

[whispers_of_fire]

Hi, Masque and OG...DANG, Masque! Before I jump into it, its
a very strange phenomonon and I am very intrigued, but OG has an excellent point, a soil test or a walk through with an EMF meter just for the sake of process of elimination in ruling out a more or less mundane cause. Was it a gradual thing or did your GranDa's neighbour just wake one morning to no bird's singing? If I may ask, how recent was this? Are
his crops suffering at all?

While I've never personally encountered anything like this, I can't help but think of an encounter OG described back in OK, the Spirit of a Medicine Man guarding a site...in fact, its making me wonder what bit of nastiness occurred there.

Hi, Spirit, that's a really good point, I kind of knew burial was unusual in the Native Peoples' cultures, but it didn't really sink in. I'd like to believe that burial site was a generalization, kind of like someone using the word ghost to describe paranormal activity, be it residual or interactive, but I'll talk to Steve about it.

Hi, Paul_G, OMGOSH...that CHEESEHEAD! If I can ask,was she being cleansed for any special reason<going into an area she'd been warned about>and is your fool of an ex part N.A.? Being allowed to take part in any kind of ritual is a very great honour and she totally disrespected them for it