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Black Shuck / Black Dog


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#1 AndyCT

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 03:21 PM

I don’t know if anyone has posted anything about this subject before, but after being told a tale about it from an old friend I decided it might be interesting to look into it. If any of you know any old tales or stories about this id be pleased if you would share them.

Black Shuck:
This is the name of a class of monstrous dog, also know as SHUCK, SHUCK DOG, or OLD SHUCK, in the folklore of East Anglia, England. The name is possibly derived from the Anglo-Saxon Scucca, Meaning "demon". Black Shuck is described as about the size of a shaggy black donkey with hugh glowing red eyes, or a single eye.
Black Shuck emerges only at dusk to patrol the lanes, marshes, river banks, and graveyards. This creature may be encountered on the roads, where its icy breath and shaggy pelt can be felt as it draws alongside a traveler. In Suffolk it offers no harm if left alone, but death soon follows for any who challenge it. In Norfolk merely seeing the Black Shuck was enough to invoke sickness or death. Another variant, the Essex Shuck, however, is a benevolent creature that has been known to guide lost travelers and protect those under attack.

This information comes from GIANTS, MONSTERS $ DRAGONS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FOLKLORE, LEGEND, AND MYTH - By Carol Rose

Black Dog:
The black dogs are found all over the British Isles, especially on deserted roads. They are roughly the size of a calf and they move in utter silence, except for the clicking of their claws. The chill despondency and despair these dogs cause is the reason why there are no detailed descriptions of their appearance. While a companion is no guarantee for safety -- for one might see the dog and the other might not -- it offers a better protection than walking alone. It is said that the best companion is a descendant of Ean MacEndroe of Loch Ewe. He rescued a fairy once and in return he and his descendants were given perpetual immunity from the power of the black dogs. (See also Barghest).

Barghest:
A monstrous dog with huge teeth and claws from the area around Yorkshire, northern England. It only appears at night. People believe that anyone who sees the dog clearly will die soon after the encounter. In Wales, they have the red-eyed Gwyllgi, the Dog of Darkness. On the Isle of Man it is called Mauthe Dog. (See also: Black Dogs.)

Moddey Dhoo:
A ghostly black spaniel that hunted Peel Castle (Isle of Man) for many years. It used to enter the guard room as soon as the candles were lighted and leave at daybreak. While it was present, the guards would perform their nightly duties but forebore all oaths and profane talk. One night, a drunken guard, from bravado, performed the rounds alone. He lost his speech and died in three days. The dog has never appear again.

In 1871, during excavations, the bones of Simon, Bishop of Sodor and Man (died 1247) were uncovered, with the bones of a dog at his feet.

This information comes from ENCYCLOPEDIA MYTHICA Online
"Evil Unchecked Grows, Evil Tolerated Poisons The Whole System" - Jawaharlal Nehru"Through Avarice, Evil Smiles; Through Insanity, It Sings" - Anonymous

#2 Caesar

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 03:30 PM

cool AndyCT. I love English folklore

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#3 mellilotflower

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 04:35 PM

Black dogs are one of my obssessions... Barghest comes from Barnguest and as such is a type of kobold rather than a black dog as such, it is a shape shifter and can also take the form of a small ugly man or a horse amongst other things... occasionally it entices men on to it's back and takes him on wild rides before depositing him in a ditch... or might take a fancy to a particular family and do hard labour for them much as a brownie might, only in the barn or related to the animals and the land rather than the home, sometimes in return for milk and bread or groute.  It is often associated with the pwca/bwca/puck - barghest being the yorkshire name for that particular type of creature.

The black dog was split into three categories Brown; the impersonal type associated with many differnt characters over a large area- this type is more likely to be a kobold as it can change shape but is often thought to be a a black dog as this may be its prefered shape.
then there's the tpye which is associated with a deffinate place or person or family and has no name.
and finally the type that occurs only in one place at a certain conjunction of the calender.

Black Dogs have been known to not only foretell the death of a loved one or the witness, but also of great wealth, sometimes leading people to stores of treasure, they have also been considered to be guardians of the undead and witches familiars.

Black Dogs are often associated with cross roads and so sometimes thought to be the souls of wrongdoers or suicide cases.   They are also often found near water.

If there's anything else you want to know, just ask :)

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#4 KalebKellum

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 04:51 PM

Great post, I love English folklore period. In England, paranormal research and occult studies are the rule, instead of the exception. In fact, paganism is the number one religion in merry ol' England.
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#5 NocturnalCantaloupe

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 05:12 PM

I noticed we have a new user by the name Black_Shuck

:)
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#6 mellilotflower

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 01:23 AM

Kaleb, I really hope you're exagerating, a pagan is as likely to encounter prejudice in England as he/she is in america... and I'm afraid despite there being a rich culture of occult the study of it isn't an everyday occurance.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#7 AndyCT

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 01:34 AM

wow thanks for all that info mellilotflower, if uve got anymore info ud like to share id love to see it. Ive been trying to find Stories and Tales about it but they aint easy to find.

There is little evidence of Black Shuck causing anyone any direct psychical damage on contact but there is an intriguing account of an attack back in 1577 in the parish of Bungay, Suffolk, the parishioners were at church when it is said a violent storm broke out. The sky darkened and the church is said to have quaked when from out of no where appeared black shuck in the midst of the congregation. It ran through the church causing fear and panic among the parishioners. Two people kneeling in prayer at the time were killed instantly as the dog passed between them. A third man is said to have shrivelled up severely burned. Several miles away at around the same time in Blythburgh another black dog reputedly appeared in the church and struck three people dead and left scorch marks on the church door.

This information comes from CAMBRIDGE PARANORMAL Online

The hell hound of Norfolk has had many documented sighting.  In 1890 a young boy was rescued from the North Sea who told a tale of being forced to swim further and further from the shore by a huge black dog who had chased him into the sea.

Even during the 1920's and 1930's there were reports from the fishermen of Sheringham of hearing a hound howling on the cliff tops during stormy nights. As recently as 1970 a sighting of Black Shuck made the headlines. When a huge hound was seen pounding over the beach at Great Yarmouth. 1980, a young woman claimed to have met the hell hound, whilst out walking with her young son. This sighting took place near Wisbeach, though the woman said that this hound had yellow eyes, rather than red, but all of the other details were the same as that of Black Shuck.

This information comes from NORFOLK COAST Online
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#8 mellilotflower

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 04:19 AM

This is the first website I found on black dog apparitions; http://nli.northampt...js/blackdog.htm It's good in that it gives a wide view of the phenomena, but it tends to be a little too general for my tastes, not taking into account the various individual characteristics of black dogs and their links to other creatures such as the Phooka, the Kobold and even the Kelpie.

Most folk tales about black dogs are about a specific apparition, quite often linked to a person or event. For example, in wiltshire there's a story of a maid whose two suitors decided to duel for hand... one of the suitors is shot and killed and his dog, seeing his master shot jumps up and kills the other suitor.  When the maid realises that both her suitors are dead she committs suicide.  The dog is now said to haunt the cross roads where she was buried.  This same dog is also thought to be the ghost of a highway mans dog which he'd trained to jump up at coachmen so that he could rob the occupants of the coach.
Another story talks of a black dog appearing at a cross roads after a burglar is hung there for drowning an old woman.  In this case the dog first appeared as a pillar of flame before settling on the form of a large black dog with burning eyes.

Another type of black dog is the church or kirk grim, this type comes from the belief that the first person to be buried in a graveyard must guard over all the other bodies untill judgement day.  In order that all of the residents intombed in a graveyard could rest in peace a dog was buried first to take on this role.  In some nordic countries this is a black lamb instead.

There is also Cu Sith, meaning dog fairy, he is sometimes white or green as well as being black and can either be a fairies messenger or guardian, much like the idea that Vampires have hell hounds to watch over them while they sleep during the day.

Black dogs have always been associated with the underworld, from the Jackel idea in egypt (amongst other countries), to cerberus in greek legend and hell hounds in more recent mythologies.  One name for black dogs, Dando's dogs or Devil's Dandies comes from the tale of a priest named Dando who enjoyed drinking, hunting, gambling, women and causing as much trouble as he could.  One day he set off with his friends hunting, taking copious amounts of liqueur with them.  Along the way a mysterious stranger joined them, he was a good hunter and was more successfull than the others.  Just as he was about to take his leave Dando took all his spoils from him saying that as the hunting party was his it all rightly belonged to him... the stranger contradicted him, took back his own meat as well as Dando's and then rode away, Dando pursued him with his dogs and followed him into a river, which boiled as the strangers horse entered it... they went down into the underworld and Dando was doomed to hunt alone with his dogs for all eternity.

There's one story of three men who went out fishing together, two from a small village and the third lived in the lighthouse near by... They fished long into the night and had little luck so eventually they gave up and went home empty handed... they parted ways where the path from the beach led either to the light house or to the village.  As the two from the village walked on they became aware of something large and dark approaching them, then they caught sight of it's red eyes... the dog didn't appear to notice them however and continued to walk past them.  Frozen with the fear the two men did nothing, then after ten minutes they realised that the dog must have gone along the path their friend took so they raced back along to the light house.  There they found their friend dead.

These dogs have also been known to be kindly, one tale tells of a messenger being joined by a large black dog just as he enters some woods, the dog accompanies him through the woods and then leaves when the way is clear.  Or at least that's what the messenger told the occupants of the next inn he stayed in... who later learned that if it wasn't for that dog two robbers had planned on attacking him.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#9 AndyCT

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 04:52 AM

thanks for the link, that site and the sites linked to it are giving me lots of info, thanks again
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#10 Bridget

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 06:59 AM

OMG, you got Melliotflower started on the black dog again LOL
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#11 mellilotflower

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 10:14 AM

I was gonna continue now I've got home from work... but :P

However, if you do want to know more about the variations, because like I say that site didn't really do them justice, let me know and I'll organise my thoughts a little better

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#12 Camille

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 11:48 AM

What fascinating information on this folklore.  Thanks for the link, too.

So, has anyone here ever encountered these mysterious, devilish hounds?
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#13 AndyCT

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 02:45 PM

mellilotflower there is something else you could help me with, could you tell me all the other names the "Black Dog" go's under that you know of?, ive picked up afew mainly: "Black Dog", "Black Shuck", "Barghest", "Gytrash", "Skriker" and "Moddey Dhoo".

encountered? well no i aint ever seen it, and after all the things ive read about what happens to people that do see it, i dont think im gonna go looking.
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#14 Daewen

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 04:37 PM

thanks a lot...now I'm even more scared of black dogs...I've been scared of them ever since I had a dream that a black dog was sitting on me and I couldn't breathe...I could even feel it when I woke up...scary dogs
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#15 mellilotflower

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:54 AM

Most of the names I know of are on that one website.... Norfolk Shuck, Black Shuck, Old Shuck
East Anglia Old Shock, Shucky Dog, Black Shuck, the Shug Monster
Suffolk Scarfe, Gally-trot, Gallytrot, Galley Trot, Moddey Dhoe
Isle of Man Moddey Dhoo, which means "Black Dog" and is pronounced "Mauther Thoo" in Manx Gaelic (Thanks to Ean Radcliffe for this)
Lancashire Trash, Guytrash, Skriker
Yorkshire Barghest, Barghaist, Barguest, Barguest, Barn-ghaist, Skriker
Westmorland Cappel
Staffordshire Padfoot
Warwickshire Hooter
Lincolnshire Hairy Jack
Leicestershire Shag Dog
Midlands Hooter
Somerset Gurt Dog or ‘great dog
Wales Gwyllgi (dog of darkness)
Scotland Black dog known as the Muckle Black Tyke and in Gaelic as Choin Dubh. Cu Sith or fairy dog is more common and is usually green or sometimes white.
Jersey Le Tchan de Bouôlé

Then there's the Grim or Church or Kirk Grim.

And strictly speaking the Phooka (Ireland) Pwca/bwca (wales) puck (england) is more related to the kobold or bugbear than the black dog as it can change shape and acts much more like a benign mischievous spirit than the decidedly darker Black Dog.  But as I've mentioned previously the barguest also is often more like the Kobold than the black dog.

There is also The Cwn Annwn, which means Dog of the underworld in welsh- they are the hounds of Gwyn Ap Nudd and are death portents so I'm gonna put them in here.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds




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