77 replies to this topic

[Bobnoxious]

I have a couple of friends who both do shows on college radio dealing with "The New World Order" and the Illuminati. They are convinced that a secret society is really running everything on the planet and working towards the day when we'll have a Satanic/communistic "One World Government". Simply by taking perfectly true and legitimate news stories and historical information, they are able to weave all the bits and pieces together into a cohesive thread that can seem pretty convincing. When you look at the information closely cracks begin to appear, but nonetheless this theory has a strong appeal to many people of varying backgrounds.

So who/what is "The Illuminati"? Well, we know for a fact that a group by that name officially came into existence in May of 1776 in Bavaria. The group was founded by a man named Adam Weishaupt, a Mason and former Jesuit. The group infiltrated many Masonic lodges at the time, and no doubt exerted some influence on the politics of the day, pushing for free thought and secularist democracy. In 1785 the group was banned by the Bavarian government.

Despite the rather short period of its "official" existence, many insist the Illuminati goes back as far as the Knights Templar and continues all the way to the present. Like most Masonic groups, there was no doubt a metaphysical componet to the Illuminati, and may claim that the group were Satanic in nature (a claim some fundamentalists make about the Masons in general). Others claim the group is promothing communism, repubicanism (not the political party but the idea of secular republics), anarchy, international banking, etc. Sadly, some versions of the theory also claim that "The Jews" as a group are bent on evil world domination.

The version of the theory my friends believe, and which seems to be the most widespread in the West these days (especially among fundamentalist Christians) is that it's all the Mason's fault. And the Masons, of course, are really a satanic/communist/catholic/pagan bunch of earth worshipers and sexual deviants bent on bringing about "The New World Order", or one world government, through the auspices of the United Nations, Council on Foreign Relations, World Bank, and other such organizations.

Anyway, that's the theory in a rather large nutshell. What are your thoughts? Do you think this theory in any of its forms has merit? Or is it really the secret alien/human treaty that's got the world in the sad state of affairs it is? Or maybe the Bush/Bin Laden family connections? Of course, the great thing about the Illuminati theory is that it's able to suck up all the other conspiracy theories under its umbrella, and the adherents to each different version all take turns calling each other crackpots.

Sources: My friends and 'Everything is Under Control: Conspiracies, Cults, and Cover-Ups' by Robert Anton Wilson.

[Chimera]

Bobnoxious, on Mar 15 2005, 02:15 AM, said:

The version of the theory my friends believe, and which seems to be the most widespread in the West these days (especially among fundamentalist Christians) is that it's all the Mason's fault. And the Masons, of course, are really a satanic/communist/catholic/pagan bunch of earth worshipers and sexual deviants bent on bringing about "The New World Order", or one world government, through the auspices of the United Nations, Council on Foreign Relations, World Bank, and other such organizations.

I like the concept of One World Government, but I am not sure if I like the Mason's ways.

[Vampchick21]

Chimera, really, the Masons are only nothing more than a drinking club for men that does charity work. Don't buy into all the BS about them (except for discussing the BS in a thread on this board of course.....lol....)

[Axman]

Vampchick21, on Mar 15 2005, 01:03 PM, said:

Chimera, really, the Masons are only nothing more than a drinking club for men that does charity work. Don't buy into all the BS about them (except for discussing the BS in a thread on this board of course.....lol....)

My Grandad was a Feemason! Nothing there any different from the Shriners or the Moose Lodge across the street in anytown U.S.A.!!!

Talk about conspiracy theories, what about the Philadelphia Experiment. Any thoughts there?

[Bobnoxious]

Vampchick21, on Mar 15 2005, 01:03 PM, said:

Chimera, really, the Masons are only nothing more than a drinking club for men that does charity work. Don't buy into all the BS about them (except for discussing the BS in a thread on this board of course.....lol....)

While I definitely don't buy into the Masons being behind any conspiracy, at least their original intent went a bit beyond being a social club. As members reach higher degrees, the group becomes more concerned with more metaphysical issues. One of the main reasons many fundamentalist Christians have a problem with the group is that they believe all religions are equally worthy of respect, and that you can learn something from all of them. Apparently that translates as "satanic" to some people.

More importantly, especially when dealing with the overall Illuminati concept, are the numerous offshoots of Freemasonry. These include The Golden Dawn, The Ordo Templi Orientis, and the Rosicrucians. All these organizations are occult in nature, not that I think there's anything wrong with that. Some of them even admit female members, something the mainline Masons will not do. Many of these groups practice sex magick aka tantric sex. There are some elements of that in mainline Freemasonry, especially in the symbology, but I'm not sure to what degree the garden variety Masons actually get into the sex magic aspects. (The Masonic compass symbol is actually a symbolic representation of the sex act, no BS.)

As for the conspiratorial slant, the "evidence" that many believers in this theory will point to is how many Masons hold influential positions of power. The more obvious explanation that this is standard operating procedure in the "old boys" network apparently isn't exciting enough for those into the theory. Both Presidents Bush as well as our last Democratic nominee for president were members of the same secret society, the "skull & bones" group at Yale, which is supposed to be a Masonic offshoot. Things like that certainly help add fuel to the fire and make even the skeptical wonder if there might be some truth to the theory.

[Vampchick21]

Just bumping this up to renew attention to it.

[mellilotflower]

I know masons, one kept asking me to come out and drink with him at their lodge (is that what it's called?), but I declined largely for the reason that he was male and old enough to be my father. As far as things go on that level there's no conspiracy.

Whenever you form clubs, especially elitist, materialistic clubs like those discussed you're going to have the various members helping each other out, helping them get into certain high authority positions. It's inevitable. And if those clubs end up going on for some time then it's also very likely that a lot of its members will be very high up (this is even more likely if membership ishereditary). I've never really seen that there's anything more sinister about this than any other form of getting on in the world. It seems to me that those who created the conspiracy theories were just a little sore that they weren't in the club, and so all these favours weren't open to them.

That said the golden dawn et al fascinate me, but I don't know enough right now to comment much on them.

[Bobnoxious]

mellilotflower, on Apr 11 2005, 08:48 AM, said:

I know masons, one kept asking me to come out and drink with him at their lodge (is that what it's called?), but I declined largely for the reason that he was male and old enough to be my father. As far as things go on that level there's no conspiracy.

From what I understand, most of the Masons these days are up in years. Membership has been in decline for a while now.

Quote

Whenever you form clubs, especially elitist, materialistic clubs like those discussed you're going to have the various members helping each other out, helping them get into certain high authority positions.  It's inevitable.  And if those clubs end up going on for some time then it's also very likely that a lot of its members will be very high up (this is even more likely if membership ishereditary).  I've never really seen that there's anything more sinister about this than any other form of getting on in the world.  It seems to me that those who created the conspiracy theories were just a little sore that they weren't in the club, and so all these favours weren't open to them.

That's pretty much it. Although it should be pointed out that within various lodges, conspiracies have taken place. The original 1776 Illuminatti is one of them, and more recently there was a conspiracy in an Italian Masonic lodge that tied in to the Catholic Church and organized crime. The group was called P2, and this was actually big news in the seventies, around the time Pope John Paul I had his 30 stint as pontiff. There's a book called 'In God's Name' by David Yallop that gives all the details. Fascinating stuff, and proof that sometimes conspiracy theories can be true.

[Chimera]

Thanks for the information.

[Bobnoxious]

The P2 conspiracy is in the news again. One of the key players, Roberto "God's Banker" Calvi, was murdered in 1982. His body was hung under a bridge with bricks in his pockets. Laughably, this was originally ruled a suicide. Now the people believed to have been responsible for this murder have been indicted. Here's the link to an article in the British newspaper The Guardian which also gives some background about the original scandal.

[Vampchick21]

I saw a headline for that today, but I honestly don't recall the case. I was 9 years old, so really....what 9 year old pays attention to that? lol.

I'll check out the newstory

[Bobnoxious]

Vampchick21, on Apr 18 2005, 09:31 PM, said:

I saw a headline for that today, but I honestly don't recall the case. I was 9 years old, so really....what 9 year old pays attention to that? lol.

I'll check out the newstory

I only found out about it myself a few years ago. I was only 12 when it happened, so I'm not THAT old yet! But when I was going through my conspiracy theory phase a couple years ago, that was one of my favorites since (unlike most conspiracy theories) there's enough hard evidence to say that it's true.

[little_light]

Im more scared of the Old women from the "Red Hat Society"
:blink: Heeeheee

[Vampchick21]

I think it was a joke Ghostbuter.