77 replies to this topic

[thesameones]

As far as conspiracies are concerned I am open, but not radical. Any thing is possible, though I don't necessarily subscribe to all of the conspiracy theories. I can, however, read the writing on the wall. There is no doubt in my mind that we, as Americans, are and always have been lied to about just about every thing. Are those lies a dark conspiracy, bad judgments, or the elite thinking that some know what is good for all? I really can't say at this time, and maybe never will be able to make a determination. It really is transparent, however, that on all levels, the government, churches, political structures in work enviroments, schools............. just about every aspect of life, we are lied to every day. Perhaps some live and believe a lie and require others to subscribe. Control is human nature.

Perhaps I am twisted. Maybe that reality of diversion from actual truth is reality, as it may well be accepted by the mass. All I know is that it is not my reality. At a very young age I recognized non-truth and decided to become a rebel, different, maybe a out cast with a cause of one, my self; as I am independant in what I choose to believe, or not believe. I can't get caught up in so much non-truth. Regardless of a lies appearance of significance to others. To me it is important that I don't subscribe to a lie, what ever a lie may be about, as every thing is perpetual, sooner or later I would not be able to distinguish the difference between lies and truth. Is it possible that subscription to fantasy and non-truth bought us to our current level? Could it be possible that there is no conspiracy, but rather there are a lot of very confused people? Could there in fact be dark conspiracy?

To believe that we actually have a vote in any political matter to me is a lie. I arrived at this decision, not because of, but after Regan became president. Stats didn't add up for me. I just couldn't see where he was popular with the hippies, yuppies, old, poor, and minorities not on his band wagon.

I think it is a large joke putting actors in public office. What next!

The next time king George (Bush) is on television, just for fun you might like to pay close attention. He lies constantly, and if you pay close attention you'll notice that he always smiles when he lies. In addition to being dumber than a box of rocks he is transparent. Even though pickins were slim I find it difficult to believe that the majority of citizens choose him to do another four years in office.

forgive me if I took this topic off in space. Just felt compeled to rambel on. As well, any one not in agreement with any thing I just posted, forgive me. To my understanding we still live in a free country. Or do we?

[angelinayorke]

On the voting note, I quit voting after this election. Despite all those ads you hear, you vote makes a difference, no it doesn't. If that were the case, we wouldn't have Bozo in office and gay marriage would be legalized. But the pollsters have control and we don't.

MY VOTE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE!

But see, your vote DOES make a difference.
You are just one vote, this is true. HOWEVER: If there are 5 million people out there that think just like you do, saying "My vote doesn't count I'm not going to bother" that is 5 MILLION VOTES NOT IN THE BALLOT!
In the 2004 Presidential Election, here is how the votes were divided:

Popular Vote
Bush: 62,040,606
Kerry: 59,028,109

Electoral Votes
Bush: 286
Kerry: 251

Difference in popular vote: 3, 012,497

Difference in electoral votes: 35

So maybe if all those "my vote doesn't count people" had gotten off their rears and to the ballots, there would have been a different outcome.

[Bobnoxious]

I think one of the main reason that the banjo player from 'Deliverance' is now the president, is because people were under the belief that he would catch Bin Ladin. What people don't know is that he never intended to find Ladin in the first place. Has anyone seen the Michael Moore movie 9/11, I think it's called. It protrays Ladin as a Bush family friend and after the Twin Towers were hijacked, they flew him out of the US. Now think about this. If this wasn't 'planned' then don't you think they may have found him by now? We have our people dying on Afghan soil because Bush is an igit.

On the voting note, I quit voting after this election. Despite all those ads you hear, you vote makes a difference, no it doesn't. If that were the case, we wouldn't have Bozo in office and gay marriage would be legalized. But the pollsters have control and we don't.

MY VOTE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE!

On the Farenheit 9/11 stuff: It wasn't Osama that got flown out, it was another member of his family. And one has to keep in mind that Osama literally has about 100 brothers and sisters. Even in smaller families, there's usually a "black sheep". I think it certainly looks bad that the Bushes do business with the family of the guy who bombed us, but it's not proof of any wrongdoing beyond the usual amoral business practices that go on all the time.

Wow, I can't believe I just sort of defended Bush. But he's got so many other faults there's no need to distort what Michael Moore said in what was already an admittedly biased film. I don't think anyone in our government let 9/11 happen or is intentionally letting Osama run free (and I don't think Moore does, either). The tragedy was just used in a very cynical way to achieve certain goals that would have been much achieve otherwise. And while I think Bush would love to capture Osama, he and his cronies put that low on their list of priorities compared to Iraq. Is that wrong? BAD_WORD straight. Just not on the same level as what you were saying.

[Axman]

So maybe if all those "my vote doesn't count people" had gotten off their rears and to the ballots, there would have been a different outcome.

That way we could select the lesser of two evils!!!

[angelinayorke]

So maybe if all those "my vote doesn't count people" had gotten off their rears and to the ballots, there would have been a different outcome.

That way we could select the lesser of two evils!!!

Unfortunately that's the gosh darn truth.

[PariahPeace]

But he's got so many other faults there's no need to distort what Michael Moore said in what was already an admittedly biased film.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. I'm probably considered a pretty radical liberal, and even I can't stand Michael Moore. He calls Bush a liar, then he himself lies in his movies...that makes him just as bad as Bush, in my book. If Moore had anything important to say, he wouldn't have to lie to back himself up.

As for conspiracies, I'm an open-minded skeptic. My father-in-law spent 30 years in the military, and even he says that there are definitely plenty of not-so-good things going on that are hidden from the general population. So yes, I do believe there are conspiracies, but I'm skeptical because some I've read about are pretty far out there.

I didn't vote this past election...you can thank Florida's impeccable election organization for that one.

[Axman]

I also believe there is a secret military base known popularly as "Area 51". I don't really believe it has much to do with aliens and UFOs though. I think it's a military test site where they test new aircraft. It's supposed to be the same place the Stealth bomber was tested.

[Goddess Four Wins]

Anyone hear of the Bildergerg Group?

Just a glance on what turns up on this Google search page should make you wonder if conspiracies are merely just conspiracies...

http://www.google.co...g group&spell=1

Food for thought...
Much Love...GFW

[Bobnoxious]

Area 51 is definitely a real place, and I'm with Ax as far as what it's used for. Let's face it, a certain amount of secrecy is probably a good thing when it comes to experimental weaponry and the like. This was especially true during the Cold War era. We also know, however, that our government has used secrecy to do things they absolutely shouldn't have been doing. Thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, we know for a fact that the government was spying on its own people, and actively trying to sabotage the peace and civil rights movements of the sixties. And of course there's Watergate and Iran-Contra. So government conspiracies are a very real thing. I just don't buy the whole ancient, evil, worldwide organization that controls everything jazz. Conspiracies work better the fewer people are involved and the less time they exist. You get too many people involved over a long period of time, and the truth eventually comes out, with proof.

As for The Bilderbergs, it's tough to say. Just because a group of powerful people gets together doesn't mean they're plotting anything sinister. Birds of a feather flock together, they say. The Council on Foreign Relations often gets a similar rap. As with The Masons, I suppose it's possible that these groups are all plotting to make life miserable for the rest of us. Or they could just be very exclusive clubs where the elite get together and hobnob. Also as with the Masons, their penchant for secrecy doesn't exactly help dissuade the notions of conspiracy theorists. Since I doubt I'll be getting invited to any CFR or Bildeberger meetings (and I'm not planning on joining the Masons anytime soon) I probably won't ever know. Until it's too late, that is.

[Goddess Four Wins]

I have a friend who's a Mason...and I think a great part of the secrecy has to do with their initiations into the different levels...or something like that.

I haven't asked him too much about it, but I can. *smile* He's a civil contractor in Mosul, and we've kept a pretty steady correspondence, so he should let me in...hehehe....

I'll write him and get back to you.

Much Love...GFW

[Bobnoxious]

I have a friend who's a Mason...and I think a great part of the secrecy has to do with their initiations into the different levels...or something like that.

I haven't asked him too much about it, but I can. *smile* He's a civil contractor in Mosul, and we've kept a pretty steady correspondence, so he should let me in...hehehe....

I'll write him and get back to you.

Much Love...GFW

That's pretty much what it's about, from everything I've read on the subject (and I've read a fair amount). There are other issues, like the fact that they treat all religious/spiritual paths as being equally of merit. Wouldn't seem like such a bad thing, but some Christians find that intolerable. There are some more controversial elements if you really dig into freemasonry (a very different idea of "Lucifer", some sex magick elements), but in general I don't think most modern Masons get into that much. It's possible the higher degrees still do, but my understanding is that groups like the Rosicrucians, The Golden Dawn and the Ordo Templi Orientis formed mainly because those elements weren't being emphasized in mainstream Masonry anymore, or at least to a great degree.

The whole secrecy thing has come back to haunt at least one Masonic lodge. I posted something about the P2 conspiracy some ways back, and in that case a crook (last name Gelli) who got control of the lodge used things members had told him as part of initiations for blackmail. Can't really blame the Masons as a whole for that, however.

[chillartist]

Hi BoB, not quite true topic but mason+ ,have you ever read Allan moores graphic novel From hell?Very detailed ,and i think his best tale in my opinion.Of course its loaded with masonic totems and interpeted history,oh jack the ripper as well.

[Bobnoxious]

Hi BoB, not quite true topic but mason+ ,have you ever read Allan moores graphic novel From hell?Very detailed ,and i think his best tale in my opinion.Of course its loaded with masonic totems and interpeted history,oh jack the ripper as well.

That's one of the few Alan Moore comics I haven't read, unfortunately. I bought a few issues of Taboo (which is where 'From Hell' was originally serialized) but only have maybe the first 2 or 3 chapters. Have to check it out one of these days. From what I hear, the movie was not a very accurate adaptation.

[Markway]

Bob:

Great thread, I don't know how I missed it.

I am a fourth generation Freemason, although I haven't paid my dues in years. We are not like the Elks or Moose. I understand that there is drinking allowed in the British Lodges, but this has been steadfastlyresisted by the American lodge members for many years, which is at least partly responsible for their declining numbers. We meet for fellowship, and to promote certain ideals. A lot of the time at lodge is spent in ritual work. A lot of the rituals go back into antiquity, although the present form was developed in Scotland late in the 17th century. Some have said that this is when the lodge truly began, but this is very unlikely from some of the content of the rituals, most of which are not understood by the membership.

The First American Revoultion, (the one that we won), was a largely the product of two Masonic Lodges, one in Virginia and the other in Boston. The recent silly movie, "National Treasure" is not so far off when they mention the masons, but there was so much more that they could have said. The Declaration and the Constitution are both based upon Masonic teachings.

The two things that always got them in trouble was their insistence upon secrecy, and , although they require that a member believe in God, they do not specify which one, and allow the membership of Muslims, Jews, and Hindus I suppose, although most members here are good Christians.

Is there a conspiracy now? Well, if the Masons are going to try revolution number three, I wish that they'd hurry up, (just kidding NSA!).

I have info on Area 51 also. I had electricians working for me who had worked on base. They had not of course been conducted into the deepest parts of the base, but one man had seen a summary execution and burial on base, and both men agreed that the one site goes down maybe 40 stories. They estimated the working population at 40,000 people, based upon the amount of supplies unloaded and taken inside daily. The site had originally built as some sort of Fallout command center, or something like that during the '40's and 50's and then totally expanded and remodelled during the '80's courtesy of the Reagan years. The really interesting stuff is supposed to be nearby at a place called Squaw valley or Mt., I forget. I dislike the idea of being questioned in our current political climate, but I am inclined to believe most, if perhaps not all, of the rumours connected with the place.

I guess I do believe in a conspiracy guiding the world. I know that associations of closely associated businessmen and politicians have met regularlysince the late '40's to agree upon the path industry should follow. These groups began to combine as time goes on. I do not accept a group alliance, but nothing that distresses the main goals of all the groups is ever allowed to happen. The new "Flat Earthers" represent one of the goals. The free movement of capital another.

Want a HOT conspiracy? I believe, (TRULY), that the head of Diebold, the manufacturer and operator of a very high proportion of last elections voting machines, faked the vote. This is the only election I know of where the exit polls have disagreed so profoundly with the popular vote. I think that Bush stole his second election.