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Devils & Demons


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#31 Markway

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 12:36 AM

I don't know what your experience as an investigator has been. It sounds pretty uneventual.

It isn't always like that. Often investigators are followed home. It is possible for an "entity" to fasten itself upon a living person without their knowledge, draw energy from them and even altering their personality. I know that you will challenge this, but I am simply cautioning you.

I didn't do ghost hunting, I was a kind of Ghost Buster, part of a team which went to people's homes and commercial establishments in order to help them survive in their homes or places of business.

I am in personal correspondence with a couple of investigators who have been detecting indications of ghostly groupings which may be dominated by a central individual. And one thing I know for certain; the more aware someone is of the otherworld, the more aware they are of you. You don't want their attention.

My position is that most ghosts are disturbed individuals. Fooling with a mental patient who has supernatural powers is dangerous.

Please clear something up for me. You say that the main reason for investigating a haunting is to verify the existence of ghosts, but then later you discuss ghosts with a firsthand knowledge and total belief. Are you saying that you're looking for proof for the world?


:D :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :weeee: :weeee: :weeee: :weeee: :weeee:


The Warrens are not friends of mine. They are however friends of friends. I know that they have put in their time, and that they are very religious. I don't agree with everything that they do or say, but a lot of their stuff is on the mark. You say that you don't believe in evil spirits and so on. I hope that nothing comes along to change your opinion. :wow:
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#32 Axman

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    Chainsaws are better......

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 06:40 PM

Please clear something up for me.  You say that the main reason for investigating a haunting is to verify the existence of ghosts, but then later you discuss ghosts with a firsthand knowledge and total belief.  Are you saying that you're looking for proof for the world?



I am looking for proof for the home owner or business owner. They require your services for that very reason, do they not? Also note that I don't consider myself a "ghost hunter". I would prefer paranormal investigator. I have been doing the research for going on 25 years and have never had anything negative come from any of my investigations. Which amounts to near 100. I don't feel that ever single disembodied spirit out there is a psychopathic spirit. I really don't feel that's what binds them here. I also feel that "evil" spirits are just ghosts with attitudes. Every time I have encountered what seems to be an "evil" spirit (flying objects, growling voices, etc) it turns out that the ghost really just wants to be let alone.
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? --BeetlejuiceI'm the ghost with the most, babe.--BeetlejuiceWe've come for your daughter Chuck--Beetlejuice

#33 Markway

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    Can dowse the moon everytime that it's full!

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 07:48 PM

I'm happy for you and your luck. I was part of a ghosthunting Paranormal Investigative team, whatever for about ten years. I also correspond with two other groups, still, after all these years, one in Connecticut and one in Michigan. We also did some investigating on our own as a few of us had grand ideas of writing stories of our adventures.

What I/we discovered was that most of the ghosts in houses, bars, restaurants, businesses, tended to be less than threatening. The scarier places were houses where people wouldn't/couldn't live, certain cemetaries, and some places where black magic had been conducted.

Frankly, I feel no compulsion to share my records anymore than do you.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#34 Axman

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 08:02 PM

I really don't have any records past my last two outings. Most of the records I keep are a timeline of any events that may occur written out in a spiral notebook. My former group kept the old records when I left Michigan for Arizona.
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? --BeetlejuiceI'm the ghost with the most, babe.--BeetlejuiceWe've come for your daughter Chuck--Beetlejuice

#35 Markway

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    Can dowse the moon everytime that it's full!

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 08:18 PM

Is this a last word thing or what? The scariest thing that ever happened to me was from a very angry, even homocidal character I ran into on my own. We had someonr pushed down a stairway but luckily caught. We investigated a spot which hosted the annual Black Sabbat. Something began to materialize, a big black tulip shaped mushroom cloud. We left as fast as we could, but felt that something was in the car as we went down the mountain.

If you want more, buy a book.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#36 Axman

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    Chainsaws are better......

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 08:25 PM

Is this a last word thing or what?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hmm, I thought it was a discussion!
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? --BeetlejuiceI'm the ghost with the most, babe.--BeetlejuiceWe've come for your daughter Chuck--Beetlejuice

#37 Markway

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 12:23 AM

Is this a last word thing or what?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hmm, I thought it was a discussion!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had hoped so, but the resemblance is diminishing. We have come to a point where I say I have encountered dangerous entities, and believe that others exist, while you seem to be claiming the opposite. If we can't do better than that, what's left?
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#38 Axman

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    Chainsaws are better......

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:14 AM

Do a little bit of reading HERE, and you'll see I'm not the only one who views things this way.
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? --BeetlejuiceI'm the ghost with the most, babe.--BeetlejuiceWe've come for your daughter Chuck--Beetlejuice

#39 Axman

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 01:37 PM

...and no I'm not trying to convince you, nor anyone else. You can believe what you wish and I will do so myself. I am only speaking from experience! First you ask for my opinion then when I give it, you thnk it's a last word thing (in your words). So, Markway, I guess I'll just avoid the threads that you post in so you won't think I'm arguing with you. It's just obvious you don't care if someone else has an opinion on the subject.

Goodbye!
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? --BeetlejuiceI'm the ghost with the most, babe.--BeetlejuiceWe've come for your daughter Chuck--Beetlejuice

#40 matt32

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 06:06 PM

axman i know u having trouble to think anything is evil in terms of ghosts.. please read up on father gabriel amorth.. and then after try going on some exorcist rituals then after that tell me what u think.. please do write on this after tell me what conclusions u have to.. ok peace

#41 Axman

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:07 PM

axman i know u having trouble to think anything is evil in terms of ghosts.. please read up on father gabriel amorth.. and then after try going on some exorcist rituals then after that tell me what u think.. please do write on this after tell me what conclusions u have to.. ok peace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Here's another article to read---->CLICK HERE!
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? --BeetlejuiceI'm the ghost with the most, babe.--BeetlejuiceWe've come for your daughter Chuck--Beetlejuice

#42 Axman

Axman

    Chainsaws are better......

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:09 PM

oh, try this one too --->CLICK HERE!
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? --BeetlejuiceI'm the ghost with the most, babe.--BeetlejuiceWe've come for your daughter Chuck--Beetlejuice

#43 Oniix

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 10:51 PM

You know.... to stir the pot a bit. I tend to agree with most of what was said in those snippets. I wholeheartedly believe that many people misconstrue an angry, frustrated, or attitude-ridden ghosty with evil. Anger isn't the only negative emotion misconstrued as evil. What about depression? bad self asteem? It also seems that when confronted correctly, the entities true response is usually withdrawal from the confrontation.

This doesn't change the fact that I believe there is the possibility of demonic entities. But, I do think it's rare.


whatever it's worth..

#44 espmind101

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 01:07 PM

I think the idea of demons, Devils and celestials is a cool one, but i think that is the only reason that it is still around. It sounds really cool, seeing a bunch of bat winged horned demons and white winged celestials fighting in some physics defying plane, but i think that is all it is. A really cool idea. Not to mention the whole religion thing that got demons and celestials fired up =P

#45 Markway

Markway

    Can dowse the moon everytime that it's full!

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 02:04 AM

...and no I'm not trying to convince you, nor anyone else. You can believe what you wish and I will do so myself. I am only speaking from experience! First you ask for my opinion then when I give it, you thnk it's a last word thing (in your words).  So, Markway, I guess I'll just avoid the threads that you post in so you won't think I'm arguing with you. It's just obvious you don't care if someone else has an opinion on the subject.

Goodbye!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

I have not answered your posts partly because it's aversive, but also because my sons are getting ready for University and they needed to use the line.

One of the first things that you said was " Don't bother to try and convince me of this or that becaise I've heard it all and don't buy any of it. " This was of course a broad paraphrase.

This sort of reply to an unanswered question or statement, renders me speechless in any effort I might have in defending my position.

In a very pragmatic way, if a spirit is hostole and dangerous to the living, it's reasons for it's behavior are often uninteresting.

I do not believe that non human spirits often choose to communicate with us. I do believe that they exist however.

Again, do you discount evil as a human characteristic or emotion? Are you so naiive as to assume that evil is always just anger, frustration, and depression? I would like you as my defense attorney if I was Daumer , Gacy, or Hitler.

I have been in houses that I am convinced influenced their owners to murder and worse.

I have read your quack experts. Only one said anything interesting. He said that he found it interesting that only religious people seemed to find evil and demons while the non-religious did not.

Does this prove that the religious are wrong, or that the non-religious, brought up to believe in moral relativity, are blind to evil when they see it? It makes me think of Neville Chamberlin coming back from europe in 1938 clutching the Munich Agreement and declaring, "Peace in our time!!!!!"

Most people and most ghosts are not evil, but my conclusion after many years is that most ghosts are at least very mixed up, (The altogether sane ones having moved on.),sometimes dangerous, and sometimes, simply evil.

Research and compared research, coupled with 40 years of study have led me to conclude that a fairly high proportion of encountered "ghosts" are non human entities from a variety of sources, but oh, I see, I have stepped over the line that YOU said must not be crossed in the course of discussion. :(
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.




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