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#61 RowanG

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 12:43 PM

What proof is there that the secrets they harbour are religious in nature?

#62 aloha_spirit

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:03 PM

What proof is there that the secrets they harbour are religious in nature?

Several Masonic rituals are available on the web. While not 100% accurate, there is a strong religious / spiritual / metaphysical air about them. You must admit that Free Masons rarely talk about how best to shape stones and fit them together.

There is the symbolic crucifixion and resurrection - clearly a reference to Jesus.
There is the meaning behind the compass, square, naval, and knee markings.
There is the New Name as mentioned in the Revelation of St John.

Even one of the qualifications to be admitted to the Free Masons is the belief in a god (true, it doesn't have to be the Abrahamic god).

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#63 RowanG

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:03 PM

There is the symbolic crucifixion and resurrection - clearly a reference to Jesus.
There is the meaning behind the compass, square, naval, and knee markings.
There is the New Name as mentioned in the Revelation of St John.



The Baptist religion performs baptism, symbolic of Jesus' baptism by his cousin John the Baptizer and of the death to an old life and a rebirth to a new walk in Christ. The Catholic religion as well as most other Protestant religions perform a last communion, symbolic of the Last Supper shared by Christ and his apostles. As for the New Name... well... all I can say about Revelations is that it was a dream. People take new names for a variety of reasons, none of which is sinister.

No one has come forth and claim that any of these religions are aiming for world domination, yet they have symbolism in their 'rituals'.

#64 Vampchick21

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:51 PM

Rowen,

The reason behind the oft revived suspicions that the Freemasons are behind any number of world domination conspiricies is simply that they tend to (or used to) keep their rituals secret from non-members. Where there is lack of knowledge, there is always suspicion and rumours.

I should also point out that many Catholic groups end up in conspiricies (including the Vatican itself), the Jews end up in them, Muslims, and some Protestant faiths as well. Just about any group or religion can easily stand accused, mainly by those who have little or no understanding of the actual workings of that group or faith.

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#65 RowanG

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:55 PM

I know why people believe that the FreeMasons are up to know good. I'm trying to point out that there is nothing wrong with a society/club/whatever having secrets. Just because they have secrets doesn't automatically mean they're sinister.

#66 aloha_spirit

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:00 PM

The Baptist religion performs baptism, symbolic of Jesus' baptism by his cousin John the Baptizer and of the death to an old life and a rebirth to a new walk in Christ. The Catholic religion as well as most other Protestant religions perform a last communion, symbolic of the Last Supper shared by Christ and his apostles. As for the New Name... well... all I can say about Revelations is that it was a dream. People take new names for a variety of reasons, none of which is sinister.


True. I never claimed that any of the rituals of the Free Masons were sinister or evil. I merely observed that they have moved from passing down skills in masonry (rock working) to performing secret rituals which are more at home in a religion that a fraternity.

BTW, did you know that Dan Brown is working on a new novel that links Mormonism with Masonry and the usual conspiracy theories? I wonder if he's prepared for 12 million angry letters if he does it wrong...

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#67 RowanG

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:13 PM

I know about the new book, but not about any group's presence in the plot.

I did, however, just read an interesting article linking the US with the Holy Grail...

#68 masonicpaintballer

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 03:06 PM

I love when people who are not masons know more them a mason such as myself about or socierty. First off, I assure you that you MUST believe in a God (depedning on your religion, I happen to be roman Catholic, a close friend and fellow mason is baptist, the other is a jew, do we care no cause we all belive in a supreme being so inside our lodge we all agree what religions cant on the outside) so take the whole killing pigs and silly satan crap out of your heads. Second, I took a vow to only share my secrets with fellow masons and not none members so therefore thats what i adhere to, third, the grail and knights templar...yes it happen what more do you want? forth, if we were so secreative and evil....why do you know we exist????

#69 RowanG

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 04:36 PM

No one here has given any indication, directly or otherwise, that we believe we know more than you do MPB. Nor do I recall anyone mentioning killing pigs (though I find nothing amiss there because I like my fair share of bacon Whirly Dude ) or silly satan crap. We're just having a lively discussion about why the Freemasons and groups similar to them have remained secret for centuries.

#70 masonicpaintballer

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 04:39 PM

its based on history and keeping some ideals alive...the true orgin of freemasons is not certain other then the fact it came out of masonry....

#71 RowanG

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 05:12 PM

Perfectly logical explanation to me...

#72 masonicpaintballer

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 06:39 PM

yep of course, i think we get a bad rap becuase we use symbols to identify things. but in my thoughts, why is symbols any different then words? what makes a symbol so bad? i mean hell we use symbols on restroom doors dont we? alas rowan i wish you were a mason as i be able to further talk on topics with you, but ask away ill answer as much as possible without disobeying my oath....

oh in case anyone cares.....here a link to my lodge, there is further help for you as well there..look under the anti-mason topics too

http://www.whitney229.org/229home.htm

#73 RowanG

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 05:41 PM

I did join the Rainbow Girls when I was younger, but that's not the same, is it?

#74 masonicpaintballer

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 06:18 PM

the rainbow girls??? im not familiar with them, however, if you are related to a mason you can become a order of eastern star!!!

#75 Redhead

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 08:36 PM

Rowan, you might be remembering Job's Daughters, for girls and teen girls. My step-daughter was a member, and was elected princess or whatever the appropriate term is. I'm not sure because as a Roman Catholic, I was not able to join anything connected to Free Masonry. There is an organization for boys as well, but I don't remember that name. It's not easy getting old - LOL
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