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#91 Birdy33

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 02:28 PM

I have to ask this, why are the Masons so secret?

Do they have something to fear, or are they embarassed about certain things they do or do they have an agenda going on that possibly isnt condusive to the well being of others or do they have enemies that want to get information on them or from them?

Why the secrecy in 2005? I may be being hard on you but I dont feel I can trust a society of some importance who keeps secrets and that includes our governments as well. I can understand the reasons for government organisations but not for a body that is just really a group of such wide and varied people, includingthose with power and authority with the same belief.

BTW my father and all my uncles and many of my cousins on my mothers side were/are masons and I grew up going to parties at the local lodge. Still i will never trust them. What I do believe is that many join just like sheep to be part of something and dont really bother about the stuff going on they are privvy too. Im interested in the bigger picture.

If Im being paranoid then surely all can be explained clearly to alleviate that. Could it really be just people wanting to think they are a part of something important or a big family looking out for itself and thats it. I dont think so, its to big for that. I do believe though that not all the members have the big picture, just those at the top. Remembering the Nazi regieme and so many cults and political and religious organisations in the past its just like sheep to let wolves make them do terrible things in the belief they are dong the right thing. Im not saying thats going to be the case but this does concern me.

I may sound like Mr Conpiracy Theory but there is one thing worse than not telling the truth when it comes to creating fear, mistrust and anxiety, and that thing is not telling what needs to be told.









Good question. Many ways to answer this exists, there are many explanations, but the ultimate one concerning f-m is always the most esoteric and occult. Dabbling in the occult gives those who practice it a sense of power, joy, freedom, energy, youth, etc, they enjoy it and they believe it makes them better people, more balanced, closer to nature, more "in tune" with the cosmos, etc. This is true with witchcraft, demonology, masonry and all of the occult sciences.
However, breaking this secrecy, bringing things into the light of day, makes these powers obsolete, or at least reduces their vigour.
This is the true (and ultimately esoteric) reason why freemasonry is secret, not because they do anything wrong per se, not because they're embarassed as you suspect, but because the beneficial energy they gain from occult ritual work does not permit openess to the general public.

#92 ghosthuntress16

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 11:33 AM

Good question. Many ways to answer this exists, there are many explanations, but the ultimate one concerning f-m is always the most esoteric and occult. Dabbling in the occult gives those who practice it a sense of power, joy, freedom, energy, youth, etc, they enjoy it and they believe it makes them better people, more balanced, closer to nature, more "in tune" with the cosmos, etc. This is true with witchcraft, demonology, masonry and all of the occult sciences.
However, breaking this secrecy, bringing things into the light of day, makes these powers obsolete, or at least reduces their vigour.
This is the true (and ultimately esoteric) reason why freemasonry is secret, not because they do anything wrong per se, not because they're embarassed as you suspect, but because the beneficial energy they gain from occult ritual work does not permit openess to the general public.


Im not sure how comfortable I am with this explanation. I recently tuned into this thread and have read it though, and find the subject of freemasonry fascinating. However, you seem to be portraying it in a negative light. I dont see how the alleged "sense of power, joy, freedom, energy, and youth" is any different from what people gain from any religion or more "mainstream" group. Dont mainstream religions aim to make people better, help them to lead a healthy, balanced life, and bring them closer to a higher being? (Im not trying to suggest that freemasonry is a religion; it just seemed like an apt comparison).

I think that people blow the "secrecy" thing out of proportion. Truth is, I think humans are bothered by not knowing things. Just because we dont know/understand something, it doesnt mean it is bad.

Edited by ghosthuntress16, 29 May 2008 - 11:34 AM.


#93 thesameones

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 12:03 PM

There is a lot of talk of Free Masons these days. Perhaps because many powerful people have been associated with them. I don't know that there is a big mystery about them, though they certainly do appear mysterous. As a child I recall Masons marching in parades in thier silly costumes. Now I thought that funny even as a child. If you think about it, it's sort of unbalanced for grown men to parade about in such play clothes. It is possible that Masons are just a play club for little boys with big egos and no other hobbies to occupy thier free time. For a short time I was in possession of a old Templor sword. It belonged to a friend who's ancestor was a Templor. She had wanted me to do research on it. That's a religious based organization. Silly, inappropriate, unecessary in these times to play act with ritual and toys as is with the Masons. Maybe the church doesn't like competition of thier play acting and silly dressing by the secular sector. Who knows. Interesting topic though. Eager to see what more people have to say.

#94 thesameones

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:46 PM

I would have to say that the one of the good things about Dan Browns book is that it brought to light a lot questions and it did so in the mainstream. I think it also brought spirituality to a lot of people.

Masons, Knights of Templar is interesting, noble to many etc. I personally think after reading page after page of information of the Skull and Bones Society it made me wonder if it was somewhat sinister. The general consensus there I kept seeing was that they thought they were the elite and that the general public were just peasants/animals. That particular society scares me a little. President Bush and his father are both Skull and Bones members as were many presidents and of coarse countless other important and powerful people.


Really interesting point. That thinking goes back to the days of kings, when the population were subjects, drones, herd, ..... Today things haven't really changed all that much. The general population are thought of by those who consider them selves superior, like King George (I do believe that twitt thinks he's a king), to be human resources, collateral, in reality a modern version of subjects to be utilized for the advantage of the superior population. The economy is set up to facilitate the efforts of the mass to the larger advantage of the superior. Luckly today we are granted many freedoms and comforts. I do feel conceren, however, that in my grandchildren's lives more and more freedoms will be removed. Truth. freedom is granted and can be removed at any time as evident that many are being removed. Advancement should provide many amenities and luxuries to the lives of future generations, as have advancements provided us more than those who went before. All in all life is pretty good. I wouldn't be foolish though to believe that we are a nation under guidence. We are ruled as the population always has been ruled. Just my little contribution (spew) to a interesting subject.

#95 Green Man

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 02:33 AM

Up until recently, LdS weren't allowed to join the Free Masons. This ban by the Masons was in effect from the mid 1840s up through the 1960s. I suspect it had something to do with how quickly Joseph Smith Jr rose to the title of Grand Master (less than a week after his initiation), and the similarities between certain Masonic rites and the LdS Endowment ceremony.


In actuality, Joseph Smith and many of his brethren and followers were made Masons. In the early days of the country the Masonic Order was trying to get more men into the organization and some Grand Lodges were allowing men who were already initiated, passed and raised Masons power to "make a Mason on sight" without the man having to learn anything, or go through the initiatic rites. This "make a Mason on sight" didn't last however because all the sudden the Mormons made about 2,000 men Masons (all Mormons) "on sight" within a couple of months. The Grand Lodges shut that down immediately. Afterwards, Joseph Smith and many others were dismissed from the Masonic Order.
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#96 Green Man

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 02:48 AM

The Freemasons are a secret society which is very old, and very powerful. The Skull & Bones at Yale is a spin-off created for up and coming young men who are usually destined for a future in politics or military assignments. They borrowed much of their symbology from Freemasonry.

Women are not allowed to become Freemasons because tradition dictates that they are not allowed. Men have always been the leaders, the strength, while women have been the homemakers, and child bearers etc. Freemasonry is a Mens organization. The origins of Freemasonry are in the old stone Masons guilds, and what woman is going to be a bearer of burdens? Women are not made to carry stone, shape stone, or do hard manual labor. The Masonic guilds eventually evolved into a society of THINKERS. Freemasonry is directly associated with spiritual unfoldment.

The secrets of Freemasonry are many. Reading a few web pages, or Masonic monitors will not give you the secrets of Freemasonry, for the secrets are not communicable.
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#97 aloha_spirit

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:01 PM

Up until recently, LdS weren't allowed to join the Free Masons. This ban by the Masons was in effect from the mid 1840s up through the 1960s. I suspect it had something to do with how quickly Joseph Smith Jr rose to the title of Grand Master (less than a week after his initiation), and the similarities between certain Masonic rites and the LdS Endowment ceremony.


In actuality, Joseph Smith and many of his brethren and followers were made Masons. In the early days of the country the Masonic Order was trying to get more men into the organization and some Grand Lodges were allowing men who were already initiated, passed and raised Masons power to "make a Mason on sight" without the man having to learn anything, or go through the initiatic rites. This "make a Mason on sight" didn't last however because all the sudden the Mormons made about 2,000 men Masons (all Mormons) "on sight" within a couple of months. The Grand Lodges shut that down immediately. Afterwards, Joseph Smith and many others were dismissed from the Masonic Order.


A little background may be in order. Joseph Smith Jr wasn't a Prophet in the usual sense of the word. Most of the time he was inspired by things he saw and experienced instead of receiving everything verbatim from Deity. When Joseph received his initiatory rites from the Masons, he caught glimpses of what he said were certain gnostic rituals Jesus taught his disciples. These rituals were too precious to record in the manuscripts which later became the New Testament of the Bible. Joseph prayed about them and received an altered version which was the beginnings of the LdS Endowment.

Joseph became Grand Master of the Masonic Lodge in Nauvoo and strongly encouraged all the men to join. Joseph also taught the LdS Endowment in secret.

The Masons, as gnostics (claiming to possess lost or hidden knowledge), didn't like at how widely their secret was being spread. They felt that Joseph had broken the vow of silence, so they cut off all Mormons from their lodges.

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#98 Birdy33

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 12:19 PM

Good question. Many ways to answer this exists, there are many explanations, but the ultimate one concerning f-m is always the most esoteric and occult. Dabbling in the occult gives those who practice it a sense of power, joy, freedom, energy, youth, etc, they enjoy it and they believe it makes them better people, more balanced, closer to nature, more "in tune" with the cosmos, etc. This is true with witchcraft, demonology, masonry and all of the occult sciences.
However, breaking this secrecy, bringing things into the light of day, makes these powers obsolete, or at least reduces their vigour.
This is the true (and ultimately esoteric) reason why freemasonry is secret, not because they do anything wrong per se, not because they're embarassed as you suspect, but because the beneficial energy they gain from occult ritual work does not permit openess to the general public.


Im not sure how comfortable I am with this explanation. I recently tuned into this thread and have read it though, and find the subject of freemasonry fascinating. However, you seem to be portraying it in a negative light. I dont see how the alleged "sense of power, joy, freedom, energy, and youth" is any different from what people gain from any religion or more "mainstream" group. Dont mainstream religions aim to make people better, help them to lead a healthy, balanced life, and bring them closer to a higher being? (Im not trying to suggest that freemasonry is a religion; it just seemed like an apt comparison).

I think that people blow the "secrecy" thing out of proportion. Truth is, I think humans are bothered by not knowing things. Just because we dont know/understand something, it doesnt mean it is bad.








I was not making a value judgment on masonic secrecy, only offering a plausible explanation other than fascist and Catholic Church persecution in the past.
We all have deep secrets buried inside of ourselves; our subconscious is in a sense secret even from ourselves; boardrooms, families and churches have secrets; governments do too. Masonic secrecy is different; it is a "sine qua non" condition for its survival. Without it, f-m dies.
Here is my value judgment though: To me (but it's just me), there is something mildly deceptive about keeping things deliberately away from the profane world, especially intense spiritual experiences and brotherly bonds which men develop in lodges. There is something "not quite right", especially when dealing with some powerful, public, influential men who affect your life and mine in different ways. It's just my feeling.
Secrecy is the only thing that keeps me from joining the Order.
But you're right; keeping something secret doesn't make it bad in itself. And keeping something secret does not take away the dignity, kindness, decency and even greatness of many Brothers all around the world; it probably enhances it.

#99 thesameones

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 09:03 PM

The Freemasons are a secret society which is very old, and very powerful. The Skull & Bones at Yale is a spin-off created for up and coming young men who are usually destined for a future in politics or military assignments. They borrowed much of their symbology from Freemasonry.

Women are not allowed to become Freemasons because tradition dictates that they are not allowed. Men have always been the leaders, the strength, while women have been the homemakers, and child bearers etc. Freemasonry is a Mens organization. The origins of Freemasonry are in the old stone Masons guilds, and what woman is going to be a bearer of burdens? Women are not made to carry stone, shape stone, or do hard manual labor. The Masonic guilds eventually evolved into a society of THINKERS. Freemasonry is directly associated with spiritual unfoldment.

The secrets of Freemasonry are many. Reading a few web pages, or Masonic monitors will not give you the secrets of Freemasonry, for the secrets are not communicable.


Too funny Green Man. I just needed to jump in and respond to your post. It's just too amusing the bones ratteling about in my head as I read your post. Though I do see your point, and appreciate it completely, it's just too funny. I am compelled to respond that I don't know whom the women you have surrounded your self with all your days are; or perhaps it's simply the assumed doctrine you speak of, but women in reality of today and historically do carry every sort of burden. Physical and emotional. For sure burden takes it's toll, and men by design, no doubt, are more capable of physical burden, but that's never eased or prevented women form doing what ever is necessary to complete the tasks at hand (but you already know that). What ever the task be. In battle, in labor (birth or other stress), in sacrifices, of domestic service or personal sacrifice to others, what ever the need women were and are up front to do what is required. Women are LARGE thinkers, creative and diplomatic, just but firm, analicical and realistic, women process from view of all views and impressions with openess and acceptance that they are fallable, and that there is error in humanity as a whole. Women forgive them selves as well as others. They are aware that contrary is self burden. They are more open and less prone to predjudice and personal motivation as a collective person than is the man in general. In ego and in fantasy men may rule, but in spirituality and in reality WOMEN RULE! L.O.L!

#100 2012leo

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 07:20 AM

The danger of masonry isn't spiritual Imo. When a mason hires masons and gives the best job to masons and protects his brother masons where does that leave the rest of us? This is basic cliche behavior and as well organized as it is will serve to hold back the real talent of the world by innapropriatly promoting, hiring and financially supporting those who would otherwise not thrive at all.

Also there is the issue of being a gossip hole, the use of the group for revenge targeting, unlawful lack of prosecution and favoritism in the court systems and among police. It's also sexist and can be used as a network for any number of criminal activities, often without participants fully realizing their role. Members are sincerly scared to tell on anyone in their group and this mirrors crime organizations.

A strong masonic presence in a town promotes a society of deciete, psychotic nepotism, favoritism and dumbos in positions of power through fraternal popularity or good looks.
Even basic immaturity-with a network and resources this vast-can do unmeasurable damage to society. Just look at a high school cliche-like the one in the movie 'mean girls' and you'll understand.

Edited by 2012leo, 19 June 2008 - 07:24 AM.

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#101 thesameones

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 09:03 PM

While doing unrelated research I came upon a couple of websites I thought the participants in this topic might find interesting. Here are two links to historical background on the Knights Templar:

http://www.beyond.fr...y/templars.html

http://www.discoverf...F_history.shtml

#102 Coiste Bodhar

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 12:26 PM

I'm new here, but saw this thread and had to check it out, as my boyfriend and his entire family have been Masons going back for generations.

There is really nothing odd about it. His family are all Christian except for my boyfriend, and in fact the sister organization, Order of the Eastern Star- which is mostly women- has a framework based on lessons of people in the bible. It's not a religious order, but some of the chapters have more religious people in them and so that is reflected in the group. They do so much good, constantly raising money for those in need, paying for surgeries for those who can't afford it, etc.

I'll have to have my boyfriend check out this thread- I always do when I come across such threads online. But in any case, there is very little that is actually secret about it compared to what people seem to have the impression of. It's not the Illuminati or nearly as mysterious, in my opinion, as this thread could make it out to be, or as most people make it out to be. Really.

My boyfriend's mom is the least mysterious lady you could know. She's just a nice Lutheran woman who wants to do good and does so through Eastern Star. Having rituals is just a way to get into a mindset, and for some to connect to the bigger picture and grand architect, and it's a commitment, but there is nothing weird about it. The relatively few actual secrets are revealed when someone is a member and almost anyone can join. They have children's groups, groups for teens.. all about being better people and doing good. Sure, some of them are not good people, but that's life, not because they're Masons.

I've been to their conventions as a guest... and compared to what people think it is... it's like night and day. Just can't believe everything you read or hear about it. Once you are actually around these people? So not a big deal.

#103 brucekp

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 09:04 PM

Looks like this thread has been going on for about three years. I too am a Master Mason. No one in my family was, but I joined the young man's organization, The Order of DeMolay when I was 14. After I turned 21 (many states the age is now 18) I joined the lodge because of the men I had know from masonry who had worked with us over the years.

After reading all the posts, I would like to clear up a few things. The secrets are really nothing to be alarmed about. Tradition mostly. You can find most of our "secrets" on the internet or a public library. However, much of what you find there is wrong. Unless you are a member, you wouldn't know what was correct. No one person can speak for Masonry. A Grand Master may speak for his Grand Lodge, but not for other Grand Lodges.

There are many masonic related orders...the youth groups:

Order of DeMolay (ages 12-21) no masonic relation required
Order of the Rainbow for girls (12-20) no masonic relation required
Order of Job's Daughters (11-20) Masonic family member required

All three are great organizations for young people. The goal is to make a good person better.

Happy to answer any questions.

Bruce
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy-ShakespeareLawmakers are studying the possibilty of banning any independent thought and freedom of choice. quoted by insiders: "We can't rely on our citizens to know what is best for them or their families, therefore we cannot permit people to freely make choices on their own. Any citizen suspected of independent thought shall be detained pending a deportation hearing."

#104 axlfoley

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:54 PM

I must admit I didn't read all the other posts...so is freemasonry anti-Christian? Yeah I know I should've read back but I'm too curious and I just want the instant answer right now.

Whatever


#105 aloha_spirit

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 11:44 PM

I must admit I didn't read all the other posts...so is freemasonry anti-Christian? Yeah I know I should've read back but I'm too curious and I just want the instant answer right now.

Free Masonry is a fraternity. It welcomes members from all religions who accept a "higher power".

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