Ok. What I am about to share with you may sound completely retarded. But i have to get this out. I was watching a show on the Discovery Channel about the Spear of Jesus. Supposedly this spear was used to stab and kill Jesus on the cross. As I was watching the show and how the Spear has been passed through generations of warring kings and leaders, a thought, all of a sudden out of no where occurred to me. It seems like a prophecy of some kind, but this just hit me. Here it goes:

Many warring conquesting men, from constantine to napoleon to charlemagne, have contributed some form of their bloody occupation, such as a nail, or metal wings at the base of the spear, to the Holy Spear of Jesus*. THE IRONY LIES IN THE FACT THAT THE METAL OF THE SPEAR ITSELF WILL BE USED TO END THE WAR TO END ALL WARS, AND FINALLY BRING PEACE UPON THIS RAVAGED EARTH.

Laugh at it, make what you want of it. I am only posting this to get it off my chest. That night I had a uneasy sleep, waking every other hour thinking that someone would walk through my door to kill me. I was probably just psychologically still reminiscing about the show I had seen, nevertheless, it compelled me to jot down this weird statement. No one ever walked through my door so I guess i was just influenced by what i had seen and heard. Feedback would be apreciated but not necesitated. THANK YOU!

It turns out that the spear could not be dated back as far as the crucifiction, but only to the 8th century AD. Never the less, the spear, with all the blood and cruelty it has seen, brings out this sort of thought in me. I dont know why. This has never happened before. I some how feel at ease all of a suddem.

Its funny that you bring that subject up. Ive always been fascinated with the Spear of Jesus. Im amazed by the power that the spear supposedly brought to the person that posessed it. I was thinking that maybe the reaseon they couldnt date it to the crucifiction is because the original spear was melted down and made into its current version or a part of the original made it into this one.

That is a very plausible theory. Never thought of that. Good Thinking

How could it have lasted the last thousand or so years? The elements would've played hel* on it, and to my knowledge (which when it comes to this stuff is somewhat limited) there was no means of preservation by anything for anything.

You could be wrong, the Iron Pillar in India has not corroded for over 1600 years or so!

The Iron Pillar --> http://www.iitk.ac.in/infocell/Archive/dir...ron_pillar.html


Why it is still not corroded after more than 1600 years! --> http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=12824

Well, this spear, I seriously doubt it's the one that was used to stab Jesus. Why would anybody keep it? Jesus was nothing but a criminal to the Romans and I'm sure not the only one who was stabbed. A Roman soldier's prized possessions were his weapons; how was anybody able to pry the spear away from him.

I think this is another story. I personally believe that there is nothing left to be found that Jesus used. Jesus was not venerated as a god until centuries after he passed. That's just the way it's meant to be.

You're in good company, GH. I've always been fascinated by this story and the many routes the spear has taken. There's no reason to be afraid, though.

For those who aren't familiar with the story, the Spear of Destiny (also known as the Holy Lance, Holy Spear, Lance of Longinus, or Spear of Longinus) is claimed to be the spear that pierced the side of Jesus when he was on the cross (John 19:31-37). Later Christian tradition named the soldier that pierced Christ's side as Gaius Cassius, and he is later called Longinus (making the spear's "correct" Latin name Lancea Longini).

There are many prototypes and analogues of the spear in other legends. It can be compared to the ancient Irish weapon, the Spear Luin, and is similar to the Bleeding Lance of Grail mythology, which was eventually claimed to be the Spear of Destiny. So as you can see, there are many different variations on this particular legend.

If you want a more detailed story of the spear, I recommend reading Spear of Destiny by Trevor Ravenscroft. It was published in 1982, but it's still in print. You can find it on amazon.com if it's not in your local library. I've read it, and I can guarantee it's a "page turner." You won't want to put it down once you get started. I can also tell you that you may be shocked and amazed at what you read.

If you like a bit of fiction based on the spear legend, you might also want to read Casca: The Eternal Mercenary by Barry Sadler. Yep, that's the same Barry Sadler who sang Ballad of the Green Berets back in 1965. Sadler based a whole series of books on the wanderings of Gaius Cassius, condemned to wander the earth doing the one thing he was trained for--being a mercenary--until the Second Coming of Christ.

The amount of literature on this stuff is amazing.

I'm not even going to pretend that I know all that much about this topic, but to answer your question about "prying the spear away"...there is a popular belief that after the crucifixion, that there were several of the roman guards who converted...If you were the roman soldier who pierce His side and realized what you had done and converted, wouldn't you keep the spear, and possibly hand it down? Just my fruitless ramblings.

Maby so, but if you converted it would seem more likely to me that if you realised what you had done and converted you would destroy the spear, rather than have God's wrath upon you and all your decendants. lol but this is just my fruitless ramblings...

That may seem logical, but you do forget that it was the last thing to touch the Lord's body, and therefore holy. Also I heard that the soldier who stabbes Jesus had poor eyesight and that when Jesus blood fell onto his hands, he rubbed it into his eyes and then could see perfectly.

you mean there really is a spear of Jesus?
I asked a bunch of people and they all told me that it was a myth ....ever since I heard abuout it in the movie Constatine.

I understand that there are all those stories about conversions and miracles, but I think they're all urban legends.

For a Roman soldier to convert to such a fledgeling religion is kind of preposterous. I think it's akin to a Marine switching to Charles Manson's cult. Jesus was just a man at that time, and a criminal, too. There was nothing special about him to the Romans or the Jews either.

The Roman Empire was the most powerful civilization in the world at that time, and Augustus was emperor and it was fall from declining. The Roman army was a very well-oiled one and I can't imagine that any soldier would desert it for a criminal.

By no means will I even attempt to enter into an argument over this, nor, will I ever make an outright attempt to provoke, but, the Holy Bible actually talks about roman converts...From the Christian standpoint, God can make us see beyond what is natural, sort of seeing someone's inner beauty...So, if God's will was for them to see the Truth, then they would, regardless of Jesus' social standings....

No, I understand what you're saying and of course I am aware that it might have happend. It is just my personal belief that it didn't occur, but whatever was meant, happened. Of that I have no doubt.

This is the first I've ever heard of the spear of Christ- and it seems to me unlikely that such a relic would survive christian history...
However I've read too much fiction to be comfortable taking prophecy literally. Or even to accept the meaning given by the one who spoke it.
I'd read it as that which drives us to fight in the name of God will save us. Or else that which has brought (by our own admission) much fighting, much war and much death will eventually bring peace and all that the christians promise.
Then I'd take another step back and say that Ghost Hunter was stirred by upbringing and the programme mentioned to believe this and formulate it into something more tangible than a mild stirring of belief.

Perhaps someone from the scene kept it and not necessarily a Roman.

We've almost forgotten the most important part of the legend came to center around the spear: that whosoever possessed the spear and understood its powers for serving good and evil could conquer the world.

The spear which was believed to be the True Spear had a history which could be traced at least as far back as Constantine the Great, the Roman Emperor who had legalized Christianity. In addition to Constantine, the spear had been possessed by such men as Theodosius, Alaric (who sacked Rome), Theodoric who turned back Attila the Hun, Justinian, Charles Martel (who had defeated the Moslems at the Battle of Poitiers), Charlemagne, five Saxon emperors who succeeded the Carolingian Dynasty, seven Hohenstauffen emperors including Frederick Barbarossa and Frederick II, and others as well.

Germanic tradition held that Charlemagne had kept the spear with him throughout 47 victorious battles, and had only died when he accidentally dropped it. Barbarossa, like Charlemagne, died within minutes of dropping it as he crossed a stream. Following these warriors, apart from Hitler, no conqueror had paid the legend any heed during the next 500 years with the exception of Napoleon who attempted to take it following the Battle of Austerlitz. Unfortunately for him, it had already been smuggled into Vienna from Nuremberg just prior to the battle, and he never obtained it.

Today, the Lance belongs to the House of Hapsburg, and rests in the Hofburg Museum in Vienna, just as it did in 1938 when Hitler seized it in the name of the Reich. After having declared Austria to be a part of the Reich, der Fuehrer had it loaded on to an armored SS train and taken to Nuremberg on October 13. There it remained in St. Catherine's Church for the next 6 years until it was removed to a safer, protective underground vault where Lt. Walter William Horn, serial number 01326328, of the United States Army took possession of it in the name of the US government at 2:10 PM on April 30, 1945.

With the fall the Soviet Union, and the opening up of Soviet archives in addition to recent testimony by former Soviet soldiers who actually captured Hitler's Bunker in Berlin, we have finally been able to confirm that at approximately 3:30 PM, just 80 minutes after the United States took possession of the Spear, that Hitler committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

A strange story, indeed. But true nevertheless.

An aside to this story about Hitler and the Lance is the fact that there is another story about General George S. Patton of the United States Army. In light of the Spear's incredible legend, Patton is said to have become extremely upset at General Eisenhower's decision to return such a great talisman of power to the Hapsburgs. Consequently, some people have theorized that the lance which was actually returned to Vienna may not have been the original spearhead, but that it is, rather, a copy---a counterfeit---of the original which Patton insisted be retained by the United States.

Whether or not the lance which currently resides in Vienna is the original one which Hitler stole, or whether it's only a counterfeit, one thing is certain: And that is that George Patton was not only one of the greatest generals in the history of warfare, having taken more land and killed more enemy soldiers, and taken more prisoners than any other general in history, he was also one of the world's greatest mystics as well.

Twentieth Century Fox's classic motion picture Patton told the story of a man who was so mystical in his belief about his own personal destiny as a soldier that the movie quite rightly underscored in a number of places Patton's belief in reincarnation in which he stated that he had lived many previous lives in countless ages of the past, always as a great warrior.

And if Patton could have seriously believed such incredible mystical ideas, then it is certainly possible that he might have used his power to secure what he believed to be such a potentially great talisman of power as the Holy Lance for his own country, orders not withstanding.

He is known to have been a great student of military history as well as an expert in military strategy. So he must have been aware of the spear's legendary powers. And after having fought two world wars in the first half of the century against the Germans, it is quite evident that such a man could easily have been more than willing to have circumvented the return of such a potentially powerful Christian relic to a Germanic royal family in light of the the spear's own legend and his own lack of restraint as far as his willingness to accept battlefield losses for the sake of victory is concerned.

It is, therefore, certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that the spear now on display at the Hofburg Museum is not the one which Hitler stole.